Can I play drk like I play pally

[ErdrickLoto]

Unleash and Flash have the same (same-ish?) aggro generation abilities - 600 potency. Literally the only difference is that Unleash has a damage component, Flash doesn't. Enmity-wise, they're the exact same.

Of course, Unleash being damaging is important because of one key mechanic: only damage-dealing abilities get bonuses from effects that increase damage. Which is obvious, but it still means that DRK has an edge on PLD for aggro generation... if you use Darkside, the damage-increasing ability that DRKs get.

I'm still not sure how you can only get off one or two Unleashes with Darkside on, unless you're neglecting your MP-regenerating abilities to an absurd degree.

[Deathgiver]

while it maybe less attack power its still more attack power than a pali can get when it pulls the same mob...

That's like saying a monk shouldn't use fists of fire because they still do more damage than a bard...

[HyoMinPark]

Ive done both I have lead pulls just as u say and just found myself wishing I could use unleash a bit more than than that one or two times

You should activate Blood Price before you ever Unleash, or begin an Unleash spam. I can easily squeeze in 4-5 Unleashes in during Blood Price's duration, and I'm constantly being hit by mobs, so my MP is more or less infinite while BP is active. Even after it runs out, I can Unleash 1-2 MORE times outside of Blood Price and still have plenty of MP left. Then, I exclusively use my Syphon Strike combo, regaining even more. If I am on auto-pilot, and I am not paying attention to my MP, in 60 content, a quick non-DA Carve and Spit gives me back almost 900 MP in itself. More than enough to sustain me until my next Syphon Strike.

and dps dont have Argo abilities , so its not really possible that a dps would steal hate from a tank in tank stance using a hate ability

You say that it's not possible for DPS to steal hate off of a DRK while they're just in Grit after a couple Unleashes? I have stolen hate MANY times off of DRKs because they Unleash 1-2 times, and then don't bother to do so anymore after that. And that's just with me single-targeting the mob they're attacking, or AOEing a large pack down. This has happened when I've been synced down, and it has also happened when I am running Expert Roulette with DRKs in raiding gear. DPS generate hate with their abilities, so I don't really understand what you mean by saying they don't. All abilities have a 1x enmity multiplier on them, and buffs increase that multiplier for each buff you pop. Sure, I can't Provoke a mob off of you on my BRD, but I can still build up hate against you, and potentially rip it off of you if you are not utilizing your toolkit.

while it maybe less attack power its still more attack power than a pali can get when it pulls the same mob, and unleash works way better than flash

Unleash does work better than Flash. That's a given--I think a lot of people agree that Unleash is the BEST out of the three AOE enmity moves tanks have in this game (Flash, Overpower, Unleash). Because not only do you have the 6x enmity multiplier with it, you are also dealing damage to the enemies, only INCREASING your hate gain. Add in the Darkside augmentation, and that's even MORE enmity gained. You said it yourself that your job is the build and hold hate against mobs. Why would you choose to build LESS?

so while I will continue to practice leading in with it...but having no mp at all or like 100 mp in case something happens is just not something thats worth the small extra damage leading with darkside on to do unleash brings

Practice makes perfect. Please keep practicing. It will only make it easier for you in the long run to maintain Darkside's upkeep and your MP. The more you practice, the better you get, and the more you are able to predict "Huh, this trash pack is gonna die soon. I'm only at 50% MP...let's be a little more conservative with my Dark Arts because I did get a little DA+Souleater happy there, and focus more on regaining my MP with Syphon Strike." or "Oh, this mob will be dead in less than 15 seconds. Let's toss a Sole Survivor on it! It's dead, and I got MP and HP back! Huzzah!"

its much more convenient to just have more mp to deal with that having half of it when I dont have to

Again, it can be more convenient for me to jump straight into my opener rather than turning on Foe's Requiem and augmenting it with Battle Voice for casters, but that doesn't change that it's bad practice not to do it.

[AnaviAnael]

So basically the last 14 pages can be summed up as follows:

OP: How do I play DRK?
Community: Use Grit and Darkside at the same time, use Unleash a few times, then DPS away.
OP: But then I run out of MP.
Community: You have abilities for that.
OP: But then I won't keep hate.
Community: Don't sweat it, you don't need to spam it.
OP: But I want to spam it.
Community: But then you end up having the problems you're complaining about.
OP: But can't I just use Grit?
Community: NO.
OP: But then how do I get better at DRK?
Community: We just told you how.
OP: WHY WON'T ANYONE HELP ME?

The community then collectively has an aneurysm.

Did I miss anything?

I'm thinking the OP doesn't actually want advise. They want approval for how they play DRK.

[Darkstride]

I'm thinking the OP doesn't actually want advise. They want approval for how they play DRK.

Pretty much this, and they'll never get approval because no one will agree that it's the proper way to play Dark Knight.


....Because it's not.

[LineageRazor]

Just depends on the mobs, for example in Dzemael Darkhold the stupid little circle adds dont move at all really being in dark side and grit I have lost argo on them because my mp may be to low to use unleash

Mobs that attack at a range are a problem that any tank has to deal with, not just DRK. If they are too far apart to hit both of them with Unleash, then don't use Unleash. Instead, use your Power Slash combo on one, then on another, then on another, until you've hit them all, then repeat. Once you get a combo on each, you won't be losing hate from that point on, most likely - as long as you're using both Grit and Darkside.

As you get more experienced as a tank, you'll learn how to pull ranged mobs close together. The way I normally do it is Unmend or Unleash on each ranged mob, then run far, FAR back so that they're all following me. This pulls them all together, so when they get close enough to start casting again, they're all in one clump. Once again, though, this is not a problem with Darkside. It's a problem that any inexperienced tank faces.

As for this overall topic - I think it should be pretty clear by now that the answer to your question is, no, you can't play DRK like you can Pally, at least, not if you want to play the job competently. I would also question whether you're playing PLD all that well - it sounds like you might be using WAY more Flash than you need to. One Flash for each mob in a group is more than enough; after that, you should be rotating your enmity combo, or refilling your MP with Riot Blade.

There are no good DRKs that play without Darkside on if they can help it, and allowing yourself to run out of MP so that Darkside falls off is actually a bit embarrassing; it does happen from time to time, but proper MP management normally prevents it. Players in this thread have given you plenty of advice as to what you might be able to do to solve your problem. Now it's up to you to either use that advice, or decide to ignore it - if you do the latter, though, please understand that you're not taking an alternate path with DRK, you're taking an incorrect path with DRK.

[bswpayton]

Pretty much this, and they'll never get approval because no one will agree that it's the proper way to play Dark Knight.


....Because it's not.

But I got advice when I posted this I had just started the class, and I actually didn't even have dark side I cant rem if it was a mission or if I didn't have it on my hot bar when I was playing, So my original question was can I just tank in grit stance and be more of a defensive style drk, because I asked someone in a linkshell this question so I figured Id ask here. And its not a matter of me not listening I have tried both methods and I have just found that the dungeons last the same amount of time that little bit of extra damage isnt killing any mobs, and that while I can do exactly as people are saying , Im the type of player like with my whm I carry Hi-Elixir and ether and use max potions and everything just to be on the safe side. When Im healing I cant even count how many times tanks have done their big pulls and all of a sudden Im getting swarmed by adds because they didn't have all the hate on them and the method just run towards the tanks has never worked in my case. So in the case of drk more mp equals more ability to use unleash like its flash on a pali plus it does damage so it is just for me much easier to have my mp to the fullest at all times because why let it go to half if you really dont have to. It allows me to do dark passenger without having to instantly worry about mp issues, are dark arts is less of a burden to use , yes its cutting corners, yes you get more damage from having darkside up when using unleash , but in those times of emergencies , its just alot easier to have mp for days and thats what Ive had using my method. I dont seek approval , I just seek no deaths in a dungeon and thats all and if Im tanking and having more mp helps with that , to me thats all that matters whether its considered the proper way or not more mp makes it easier and I dont think anyone can really deny that leading with darkside hinders sorry I meant hinders mp , using darkside when my mp bar is full just makes things alot more convenient

[Amirya]

I freaking deny that leading with Darkside hinders my ability to tank.

Just admit you don't want to play correctly, you just want to stand in one spot and Unleash until the dps have killed everything. That Unleash is the only button your bars.

Or admit you take pride in sub-par mediocrity.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I'm just curious why the threads still going. It's been 15 pages now of well over two dozen people giving the op advice that is dismissed by the op for irrelevant reasons. ((Dark side gets you killed? Really?)) It just seems like the OP wants to be vindicated for playing DRK badly.

[ErdrickLoto]

You get Darkside from a quest. Literally the first quest after you get DRK. You're standing right in front of Frey when he has the quest "Kill some stuff, get Darkside!". It'll be added to your hotbar right after the quest, unless your bars are already stuffed at level 30 by some miracle.

You can already have "MP for days" if you have Darkside up. You're less likely to have aggro emergencies if you're properly using Darkside, because that gives a damage bonus, which gives more aggro, which makes the DPS have to deal more damage to catch up. You really, really don't need to be spamming Unleash - just layer it on twice, maybe thrice, then go to town with the Syphon Strike combo.

You don't need to have your MP at full. Having a decent cache is fine, if for no other reason than making sure you don't run out of MP and thus exit Darkside. But there's no reason to be sitting around at ~50% MP.