WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

So why are most speed runners using SCH/AST instead of WHM/AST when that comp is really that much better?

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

[Yeol]

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

Same can be said to PLD. They are good for progresstion and then replaced with DRK mostly.

[DeadRiser]

Some of you are grasping at straws.

Like seriously, both have their identity and both are still used today. WHM or AST will not fade out. Both are very strong in their own right.

Using a Healing Per Second parser to "parse healing"... I'm sorry. We aren't dps. If we are keeping the party alive, that's what matters. Not a parser.

I play both WHM and AST. Sometimes, I feel WHM is better. Sometimes I feel like I can do better as AST.

[Irenia]

Some of you are grasping at straws.

Like seriously, both have their identity and both are still used today. WHM or AST will not fade out. Both are very strong in their own right.

Using a Healing Per Second parser to "parse healing"... I'm sorry. We aren't dps. If we are keeping the party alive, that's what matters. Not a parser.

I play both WHM and AST. Sometimes, I feel WHM is better. Sometimes I feel like I can do better as AST.

I suppose the main thing is, what do you mean by 'better'? I believe that for people who aim for excellence that the only thing that matters is "clear time" - or how long it takes to beat the instance. They DPS because it lowers clear time. People dying is bad not because it is innately bad... it's bad because it raises the clear time due to time and resources taken to raise the dead person and the weakness lowering the stats of the raised individual - lowering damage, and therefore raising the clear time. This explains other roles' actions as well. Tanks like being outside of tank stance because it increases damage and lowers clear time. Some groups let certain DPS take some avoidable damage to let said DPS deal more damage in an attempt to lower clear time. WHM is considered worse than SCH and AST because the tools it has allegedly does not lower clear time as well as the other healers.

I love playing WHM, and I have made peace with the fact that it isn't as good as speed clearing as the other two healers. After all, there will always be a 'worst healer' - the best I can hope for is that the difference between the best WHM, SCH, and AST are as small as possible. Where the best player using the worst healer still performs better than 99% of all other players, and that switching to the better ones is not that much of a gain.

[technole]

Yeah, AST/SCH is the speed run combo. The current dream comp is DRK/WAR/AST/SCH/NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH. Although you can swap MCH for a caster just fine, just the double ranged utility is a bit overpowered this tier. PLD, MNK, and WHM are the least desired.

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

It's a fallacy to think WHM is "safer" for progression, it's not. AST mitigation and buff toolkit is too good to ignore this tier. It's also no coincidence world first Creator Savage was AST/SCH and their DPS was much higher than the subsequent followers that brought White Mage.

Same can be said to PLD. They are good for progresstion and then replaced with DRK mostly.

Nope. PLD hasn't been optimal for progression since DRK was introduced in 3.0.

Absolutely DRK>>>>PLD in A12S cause it's all magic, again. Their Dark Mind cooldown cuts down on tank swaps and also brings more DPS. Despite PLD buffs, and QoL changes last cycle they are still quite a bit behind.

[Accelerating]

Some of you are grasping at straws.

Like seriously, both have their identity and both are still used today. WHM or AST will not fade out. Both are very strong in their own right.

Using a Healing Per Second parser to "parse healing"... I'm sorry. We aren't dps. If we are keeping the party alive, that's what matters. Not a parser.

I play both WHM and AST. Sometimes, I feel WHM is better. Sometimes I feel like I can do better as AST.

No one cares about healing per second when the party doesn't die, what matters is the dps a healer can contribute.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Some of you are grasping at straws.

Like seriously, both have their identity and both are still used today. WHM or AST will not fade out. Both are very strong in their own right.

Using a Healing Per Second parser to "parse healing"... I'm sorry. We aren't dps. If we are keeping the party alive, that's what matters. Not a parser.

I play both WHM and AST. Sometimes, I feel WHM is better. Sometimes I feel like I can do better as AST.

The fact is, there are two other healers that can do much more than "keep the party alive".

AST offers buffs, mitigation and has a near unlimited resource of MP.
SCH offers a fairy with a full toolkit of useful abilities and high mitigation.
WHM offers Cure III, the strongest Aoe heal in the game, but also the shortest ranged heal in the game.

Compare the usefulness of all that. WHM is the only healer that simply stops at healing while other go on to offer a ton more. It's a problem.

[Yeol]

Nope. PLD hasn't been optimal for progression since DRK was introduced in 3.0.

Absolutely DRK>>>>PLD in A12S cause it's all magic, again. Their Dark Mind cooldown cuts down on tank swaps and also brings more DPS. Despite PLD buffs, and QoL changes last cycle they are still quite a bit behind.

I know that DRK is better for A12S than PLD. But A9S-A10S-A11S PLD can do them just fine.
In our group we used PLD/WHM for progression and DRK/AST when farming.
A12S is a different story.

So PLD replaced by DRK and WHM replaced by AST.
It would have been better if we went DRK/AST from the beginning. But WHM/PLD make things easier when learning (A12S is an exception).

[Fernosaur]

PLD made things easier on learning healers throughout most of Midas and the first 3 raids from Creator. So yes, in most of that, PLD makes progression easier. Also A2.

I wouldn't really say WHM makes progression easier anymore, though. AST and SCH together have enough burst healing to make Cure III and Assize unnecessary in literally every dual-healer scenario, and as said before, Disable + CU are much better than WHM's powerheals.

[technole]

No one cares about healing per second when the party doesn't die, what matters is the dps a healer can contribute.

Yep, I like to look at "casts per minute" as a healer measurement. What are they doing when a heal isn't necessary? Are they taking advantage of every GCD that they have or are they standing around for seconds that could have had cleric and DoTs thrown at the boss rather safely. The better healers in this game are making full use of the time they have when a heal isn't necessary, even in-progression. Better phase pushes means less to heal.

It would have been better if we went DRK/AST from the beginning. But WHM/PLD make things easier when learning (A12S is an exception).

Yeah, PLD is perfectly fine in A9-11S. I will say DRK is unfairly favored in A9S for DPS because they can easily toss AoE damage to the adds and Faust.

Our DRK only goes PLD in A10S since it's easy mode for the job in a sense, boss is physical, hardly much AoE. Still, the higher DPS contribution from DRK can't be understated. Then you got Delirium if you aren't bringing MNK for the INT down, and the "optimal" melee comp doesn't include them. But PLD Devine Veil is helpful for the heavy stuff like Eternal Darkness and Whirlwind spam.

We actually were WHM/SCH in the first weeks of the patch through A9-11S. But that was my co-healer's choice after having cleared Midas Savage as WHM. She would go AST in some lockouts during progression and weeklies, then switched permanently after our first A11S clear since the buff meta was too good, and hadn't looked back.

I still preferred AST in A11S-A12S over WHM anyday even during progression. Synastry shines in A12S, and Disable/CU also helps SCH. More mitigation, means less healing, and room for both healers to DPS more.

Cure III was kind of WHM niche in A6S and A8S but you could handle it just fine with AST. This tier it's good for A11S Photon everyone spam, but light speed covers that too, honestly just a bit better since you are moving for lasers.