WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[StrategistShiroe]

Wanna here a joke? We may be losing that too.

I mean, it's completely useless no matter what anyone tells you, but just the fact that we just progressively lose more and more and more and more.
Next Holy is going to be crossclased.

Crossclass Holy in exchange for a WHM only 1 free non weakness rez per 5 minutes per party member. /s

Please no I love my shiny sphere of doom as my own.

[DreamWeaver]

This is the HPS average for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...t=5&metric=hps
if WHM is at 100%, AST is performing at 90%

This is the HPS on tanks for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...metric=tankhps
If WHM is at 100%, AST is at 97%.

So tell me, is 10% more AoE healing and 3% more tank healing equivalent to "I CAN HEAL ALOT MORE COMPARED TO AST!!"?

I am honestly bloody baffled why the general consensus is WHM has way more healing power compared to AST, when the hard cold facts are as above.

[StrategistShiroe]

This is the HPS average for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...t=5&metric=hps
if WHM is at 100%, AST is performing at 90%

This is the HPS on tanks for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...metric=tankhps
If WHM is at 100%, AST is at 97%.

So tell me, is 10% more AoE healing and 3% more tank healing equivalent to "I CAN HEAL ALOT MORE COMPARED TO AST!!"?

I am honestly bloody baffled why the general consensus is WHM has way more healing power compared to AST, when the hard cold facts are as above.

People are used to saying it because WHM is just that, raw healing. However now the AST buffs show the fading identity of WHM in truth.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

nah, people used to say that because prior to 3.0, WHM was the only one with real AoE healing potency, sch didnt have enough to withstand most of the damaging AoE and WHM was required for that, but that's absolutely not the case now. It was true before, but that was a long time ago.

[Cleftobismal]

This is the HPS average for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...t=5&metric=hps
if WHM is at 100%, AST is performing at 90%

This is the HPS on tanks for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...metric=tankhps
If WHM is at 100%, AST is at 97%.

So tell me, is 10% more AoE healing and 3% more tank healing equivalent to "I CAN HEAL ALOT MORE COMPARED TO AST!!"?

I am honestly bloody baffled why the general consensus is WHM has way more healing power compared to AST, when the hard cold facts are as above.

So you wan't AST to heal even less than it does now so you guys can have not just the most healing but healing miles ahead? Or are you asking for an unique Utility to be placed on WHM right now despite the three the healers aren't having a real issue right now. These numbers tell me nothing but WHM still heals more than AST.

Here is how I'm going to see it.

If we are truly going to add more than just heals on every single healer. Expect SE to nerf the potency of the WHM heals. We are actually in a good state right now for clearing end game content. And it just seems tiring to me that every time SE does something to another healer. WHM throws a fit. If SE truley listened to the complaints about the WHM class since 2.0. We would have a game destroying class. That is what I don't want to see happen.

I keep seeing all these suggestions for WHM's gaining buffs such as a way to increase the party dps or even reflect damage. But what are you guys going to give up in return? Your class is no way behind in clearing end game content. Yall are just bored of playing a healer.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

So you wan't AST to heal even less than it does now so you guys can have not just the most healing but healing miles ahead? Or are you asking for an unique Utility to be placed on WHM right now despite the three the healers aren't having a real issue right now. These numbers tell me nothing but WHM still heals more than AST.

What he means is Whm arent healing a lot more than Ast while not having any "real" utility, way worse mp management, and no mitigation capacity. If Whm are to be considered "the healer that heal more", he has to shine in this way. Compare WHM mitigation to Sch mitigation, WHM utility to either SCh or AST utility, then compare WHM healing capacity over the other two, the gap between the first two comparaison is huge, while the other gap is pretty negligeable. Remember that mitigation has no limit (more shield/reduction is always better), utility neither (more damage/resource regen is always better), while healing has (healing too much will always get you into overheal).

Since you edited your message, i'm adding a bit:

Ast has nearly the same raw healing output as WHM at the moment, if it wasnt for cure III which is extremely situational, you would have more healing power than us. What healing spell capacity would you lower? ast has the same healing capacity on his equivalent skill of cure, cure II, regen (a bit different use, but still), medica, medica II (which has lower range on the other side for Ast). your ED heals more than our tetra in average, so... you want to reduce cure III,assize and benediction, which are either extremely situational (cure III), mandatory for mp management (assize)? (not even gonna talk about benediction which is NOT an oh-shit button, gonna repeat it another time)

[Cleftobismal]

What he means is Whm arent healing a lot more than Ast while not having any "real" utility, way worse mp management, and no mitigation capacity. If Whm are to be considered "the healer that heal more", he has to shine in this way. Compare WHM mitigation to Sch mitigation, WHM utility to either SCh or AST utility, then compare WHM healing capacity over the other two, the gap between the first two comparaison is huge, while the other gap is pretty negligeable. Remember that mitigation has no limit (more shield/reduction is always better), utility neither (more damage/resource regen is always better), while healing has (healing too much will always get you into overheal).

I've never seen a tank complained about a healer until the party wipes. This whole thread isn't about boosting whm for the sake of keeping it in end game. It's just an out cry to have something in addition to it's top healing. It saddens me to hear you guys wan't to obliterate the concept of reactionary healing.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

Your reasoning isnt in the good way. Every healer at the moment can heal at the same level. Sch bring fairy and substained dps with various buffs (and even yoshida said he was OP right before the last AST buff went live), AST now brings huge utility, but WHM is still the same.
So what people are asking is why take WHM, when you can have AST and SCH?

By your reasoning, we can remove all dps skill of every healer and every dps boosting skills, because it doesnt impact the raw healing output of the healers. That's completely wrong.

[Accelerating]

I've never seen a tank complained about a healer until the party wipes. This whole thread isn't about boosting whm for the sake of keeping it in end game. It's just an out cry to have something in addition to it's top healing. It saddens me to hear you guys wan't to obliterate the concept of reactionary healing.

It's more about the fact that there no reason whatsoever to take a WHM over an AST for raiding.

[Ghishlain]

@Cleftobismal - Maybe this might be a better way to visualize this (objective values used)

WHM Healing = Grade A
WHM Utility = Grade D
WHM MP Restore = Grade B

AST Healing = Grade A-
AST Utility = Grade B+
AST MP Restore = Grade A+

Healing requirement for A12S is A-

With that in mind, do you think players would want WHM or AST more? While yes, people should play what they want, when you objectively compare the kits in that fashion it's hard to argue that you wouldn't want to take an AST over a WHM if you have the option to do so.