Vet gamer returning and would like some insight please

[Rivxkobe]

WAR as its propably most well done job in game besides SCH

Hahahahahahahaha! Oh my god!

Haha... Oh wait. You are serious...

Umm. Well besides the fact that WAR is borderline, if not completely, overpowered SCH itself was a terrible idea and a game's balance nightmare. If you truly think they are the most well done jobs in the game I can't help but think you are clueless to how a game's actual balance works and re blind to how much problems both jobs have caused with their screwy kits and power. Being overpowered is NOT the same as being well designed.

This is coming from someone who mained SCH.

[Launched]

Hahahahahahahaha! Oh my god!

Haha... Oh wait. You are serious...

Umm. Well besides the fact that WAR is borderline, if not completely, overpowered SCH itself was a terrible idea and a game's balance nightmare. If you truly think they are the most well done jobs in the game I can't help but think you are clueless to how a game's actual balance works and re blind to how much problems both jobs have caused with their screwy kits and power. Being overpowered is NOT the same as being well designed.

This is coming from someone who mained SCH.

WAR is the standard every other job should live up to. Being well designed is what makes it strong. WAR doesn't have any useless skills, so of course it's going to be better than the ones that have skillslots wasted on trash like Cover and Tempered Will, or duplicate skills like Abyssal Drain, or procs that pidgeonhole them into the MT role instead of letting them work anywhere. DRK and PLD are pretty far from being well designed, and the patch/expansion where they nerf WAR instead of fixing PLD's/DRK's flaws (and you can fix those flaws while still leaving weaknesses, WAR has some) is the patch/expansion where I quit tanking.

[Lyth]

WAR is the standard every other job should live up to. Being well designed is what makes it strong. WAR doesn't have any useless skills, so of course it's going to be better than the ones that have skillslots wasted on trash like Cover and Tempered Will, or duplicate skills like Abyssal Drain, or procs that pidgeonhole them into the MT role instead of letting them work anywhere. DRK and PLD are pretty far from being well designed, and the patch/expansion where they nerf WAR instead of fixing PLD's/DRK's flaws (and you can fix those flaws while still leaving weaknesses, WAR has some) is the patch/expansion where I quit tanking.

The devs disagree with you, if the Famitsu interviews are to be believed. There are a lot of "get out of jail free" cards in WAR's kit like IB and Equilibrium that allow even mediocre WARs to slip through situations reactively, instead of needing to use their knowledge of the fight to play proactively. When you optimise the job gains more depth and you lose the crutches, but you still have a pretty big safety net. WAR isn't popular because it's super demanding and brutally unforgiving. That's rarely what draws people to jobs - it's generally the exact opposite. WAR is popular because it makes you feel good about yourself and feel like you're doing a lot of damage, even if you aren't the best player (and aren't actually doing all that much damage for the job).

I know some people may not be fond of Cover or TW, but playing PLD optimally often requires you to make find uses for these "niche" skills when the advantage presents itself. If you're unsure of the benefit of having a knockback negation move, best to stay away from the job. It's not for everyone.

PLD and DRK aren't "pidgeonholed" into the MT role. If you're stuck playing with a more closed-minded co-tank for whatever reason you may not get many opportunities to actively tank, but if you're playing with a good group the MT/OT delineation isn't really important and you'll each be playing to your strengths anyways. Don't hate the job, hate the player. We're not all big meanies who don't let our WARs tank. But you will be missed. Perhaps.

[Brian_]

The devs disagree with you, if the Famitsu interviews are to be believed. There are a lot of "get out of jail free" cards in WAR's kit like IB and Equilibrium that allow even mediocre WARs to slip through situations reactively, instead of needing to use their knowledge of the fight to play proactively. When you optimise the job gains more depth and you lose the crutches, but you still have a pretty big safety net. WAR isn't popular because it's super demanding and brutally unforgiving. That's rarely what draws people to jobs - it's generally the exact opposite. WAR is popular because it makes you feel good about yourself and feel like you're doing a lot of damage, even if you aren't the best player (and aren't actually doing all that much damage for the job).

How are Equilibrium and IB reactive? IB requires you to have 5 Stacks to use and Equilibrium requires you to double weave it with an oGCD with heavy animation lock to use it as a reactive heal. If you are blowing Infuriate to IB, that's a big loss (especially if you are wasting stacks while doing so). If you were implying they could just Defiance + Equilibrium ahead of a tank buster, that's the same as just turning on ShO or Grit as Equilibrium will only just top off the health gap from switching to Defiance. I seriously don't get how PLD or DRK are any more proactive to play when both those are much more reliant on vanilla dCDs and WAR has the largest gains from actually knowing a fight through and through. At worst, DRK has to sit at maybe half MP instead of dipping down to almost none and loses a few DASEs when they are learning a fight and playing conservatively. A WAR might be saving stacks to IB something, holding RI and Vengeance and thus losing out on triple FCs, prioritizing Path over Eye, or holding Berserk because of a bad pacification timing or an issue with up-time windows. Nevermind that of all the immunities, Holmgang is the least forgiving.

The Famitsu interview was about versatility and utility and the resulting representation of WAR and SCH in content. Not about this made up stuff about "get out of jail free" cards. They said that there are concerns with adjusting SCH and WAR because of the large skill range of the jobs and that they aren't looking to single out WAR and SCH and are going to look more at an overall skill adjustment for all jobs.

WAR is popular because DPS tanks are more popular and people love riding that OP bandwagon. I played WoW during the vanilla / BC era of DPS Warriors and every Warrior just wanted to DPS. Tanking is not a popular role and WAR is the tank job that bridges the gap for many DPS players. If anything, as we frequently see in complaint topics about tanks, WAR seems to be constantly singled out in these topics about DPS obsessed squishy paper tanks.

[ZioSerpe]

Hahahahahahahaha! Oh my god!

Haha... Oh wait. You are serious...

Umm. Well besides the fact that WAR is borderline, if not completely, overpowered SCH itself was a terrible idea and a game's balance nightmare. If you truly think they are the most well done jobs in the game I can't help but think you are clueless to how a game's actual balance works and re blind to how much problems both jobs have caused with their screwy kits and power. Being overpowered is NOT the same as being well designed.

This is coming from someone who mained SCH.

But apparently being overpowered means not being well designed...
Warrior is well designed, ok is overpowered, but that doesn't mean is badly designed, your argumenrt is bad.