Monk Macros with Proper Rotation!

[TheRealMadruck]

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Kitfox, Like I wrote in the edited first post on the top of this topic.....no matter what proof I have or video evidence with Factual data.....you will consider this subject of using Macros for any reason as a Monk as mute. I have done test Kitfox, your right when you say that I may have a good latency or that stats where not a factor into it......but does that negate that bluntly people make statements that Macros for Monks as a whole no matter the content are worthless based on the notion that all dps drops to 15% or more when factual data I have says otherwise? Really? Did you happen to consider the human factor into your disagreement? I was in the US Army Kitfox and we have a very simple saying for what I did in the service....K.I.S.S(a acronym not the band) it stands for Keep it simple stupid in which I am not calling anyone. That acronym clearly states that the simpler a method is done the more likely the chance of no errors are to occur. So lets say you have the best Monk player in FF14, can you promise me that that Monk will have a 100% uptime in dps with no mistakes while having to throttle lets say for kindness only 18 buttons(Monk has alot more based on buffs and X-Class Abilites) do you think that a player who uses no macros wont screw up his rotation by accidentally pressing the wrong button compared to a person who does macro and only has 12 buttons for discussion sake? Really? Who do you think will more likely make errors more often for the average player? The one with more button bloat or less? If you answer more, that answer is not true based on statistics and basic % in math.

So I can understand your feedback within this subject(btw I did use your information and added it to my video so thank you for that) but it still does not negate the facts of my data on the falsehood that using any Macros on Monk is a massive dps loss...its not true! You do lose dps, even if it is 5% on your example....that does not negate the fact that again according to the numbers since humans make mistakes that the dps and the overall numbers will pretty much end up the same since the Macro using player is less likely to make such errors. I know you will still disagree as I will stand firm on my data I collected based on facts displayed on my recent video, but I hope you decide to give Macros a chance if you play Monk....maybe not for endgame content as that is not the only stuff to do in FF14, but maybe while soloing or doing older content or fates even. But other than that, thank you for your feedback and for being cordial as I wish more players were like yourself in which displaying respect is important to them! Take care.....

[Kitfox]

Did you happen to consider the human factor into your disagreement?

Yes, I consider the human factor. The argument is largely manual vs automatic. Do you want a system to handle things for you, or do you want to handle everything yourself? The thing is, with experience and practice the error margin of input mistakes becomes incredibly small. A person might still make mistakes in their judgement and foresight, timing and mechanics, but action input mistakes on high levels of play are very rare. That's because humans have in-build automation systems in them: muscle memory and scripting (psychology term) of repeated actions. Instead of transfering that muscle memory to a macro, you can keep it in your body, while retaining the ability to be flexible with your input. You brain is way more flexible than the macro system in game.

You also have to consider that the macro system is inherently flawed vs manual input. So, when both sides play perfectly, manual input will always pull ahead. You'll have to consider the chances of input mistakes of both sides, but manual side always has to do more mistakes for the macro side to catch up. You also have to consider the nature of the mistakes both are subjected to. Not all mistakes are related to one's input method. Even if you argue that handling a broader input spectrum would take away from your mental capacity to avoid all kinds of mistakes, you have to remember that muscle memory and practice can take away essentially all overhead related to action input, leaving you with the same capacity to process the rest of the fight.

I'm arguing for the end state of practice. You will end up with essentially the same error margin on both input systems after practising a lot, the difference is that one input system is more versatile and effective than the other one. KISS is a common saying in a lot of fields, not just the army. It's most suitable for situations where people need to pick up new skills very quickly and react under unexpected stressful scenarios. FFXIV gameplay is neither of those. All encouters in the game are very scripted (except PotD), you can practice as much as you want, and do it safely from your home. It's true that you can reach your "complete state" more quickly with a simple macro system, but with ample time and given the fact that you can practice manual input in more scenarios (all classes), you will reach the same state of performance inevitably without it, possibly faster if you also play other classes besides MNK.

The question is, when you're at your best after practising, do you want to be using a flawed system (even if it was only 2%) or the most efficient one? Both will eventually end up with similar error margin for input mistakes.

[TheRealMadruck]

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Thanks to Axxion earlier in this post, https://www.fflogs.com/reports/McNw7...pe=damage-done If you clearly see that data it shows that the Monk in that party had a 90% uptime in dps. That could be for several reasons....movement, boss being immune to damage, etc.....but I promise you that a portion of that was human error. As you stated about muscle memory and other scenarios, it still does not negate the fact that even IRL Blackbelts in Martial Arts that have attained the highest degrees attainable(there is not a technical cap on Degrees of some Martial Arts btw)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlR_3X9JAuY do not make mistakes....so if thats possible, anyone...even the most proficient Monk in FF14 can have a bad day.

Lastly, watch both of my videos, link me a section in them were I stated that the macros I made were for endgame and they were the only ways to play a Monk in FF14.....I didnt. The data I provided was a guide, a method to correctly do Macros if players choose to....that is all. I admit Macros are a dps loss for Raids and Endgame, it still does not negate the fact that Macros can be extremely useful in many facets of FF14 and also that assuming all players who do Macro will never learn to play Monk properly without Macros is kinda presumptuous wouldn't you say?

[Kitfox]

anyone...even the most proficient Monk in FF14 can have a bad day.

Yes, exactly. Even a MNK using macros will make mistakes. That's my point. Everyone will make mistakes regardless of their input method, and with practice both will make the same amount of mistakes, but one system will be better overall.

also that assuming all players who do Macro will never learn to play Monk properly without Macros is kinda presumptuous wouldn't you say?

I'm not assuming that at all. I'm only saying that it will hinder them because they're different ways to play. They'll have to learn two systems instead of one, which will be slower, a hinderance. I'm assuming (and hoping) everyone will eventually get to the same point with practice. I don't understand why you would want to get there slower, or use a flawed system when you get there. Why learn two ways of playing, when you could learn one? What was is about keeping things simple?

Macros are very useful for call outs and crafting, I'm not denying their usefulness. But for fighting they're not, because they make you slower and less flexible. They also delay learning the proper way to maximize DPS. I just don't see any upsides to using them. But as long as it's understood that they're not an optimal way to play, I don't really care.

Also, anyone saying using macros is a gigantic loss like 50% dps is just trolling. Using the same exact rotation with the only difference of activating GCDs with macros, I really can't imagine the difference being more than 5-10%. But if your macros are bad and the rotation is NOT the same optimal rotation down to the oGCDs, then the loss can obviously be anything up to 100%. It is pretty hard to maintain a perfect rotation with macros while also gaining significant simplification at the same time though, which is why I don't see the point.

[TheRealMadruck]

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Kitfox, do me a favor and I ask this with all sincerity and kindness.....copy my macro....try it yourself for casual or midcore content not Raids or Endgame. Second, to me its not slow whatsoever! Learning to sub maybe 6 buttons compared to the 18 that the monk has to use at its core it nothing to overcome. I agree that some may have that issue, but as I already stated....Macros are for players that want to use them as it is a built in system for FF14. Again, we won't agree on this subject, you think Macros are bad overall in regards to any form of DPS role and I respectfully disagree with you based on my data I have provided publicly.

If you truly want to alter my stance on this contrary to my video and data, please post your own demonstration using my simple macro and show at the same time your data while doing so like I have. Anything other than that is again pure opinion on your part while I have documented data accessible to the public that clearly shows my information. Please so not take this negatively as you have been incredibly respectful, but I believe in facts and to many people on youtube and in the forums make claims they are not willing to provide themselves to show as proof. When someone does provide a actual video showing a different detail on the data, I will show them high regard and take all their information into strong accord.

[Kitfox]

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Whether or not you consider delay significant is your opinion. The delay exists and I would rather do without it, because I can. I've learned to play the game without macros and I'm completely fine using 40 buttons for my battle actions. I don't see any point in limiting myself on purpose since I've tried macros for a lot of things in the past and I know how they work. There's already 2 videos in this thread displaying the specific problem I have with macros, one using proper rotation presenting a 10% dps loss, and yours using a subpar rotation presenting a 2% dps loss. Both videos present the same problem, in-built delays caused by macroed abilities not queueing. I don't see how my own testing would add anything to that.

Again, if you don't consider the delay significant, that's your opinion. You've proven it yourself that it does indeed exist. I don't particularly care about your stance on things as long as you don't spread misinformation.

[HelSpites]

If you truly want to alter my stance on this contrary to my video and data, please post your own demonstration using my simple macro and show at the same time your data while doing so like I have.

So, this thread got me to go make a thing. Here's you go. Here's how your macro stacks up against an actual monk rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCRXdFR7iw

[Frowny]

So, this thread got me to go make a thing. Here's you go. Here's how your macro stacks up against an actual monk rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCR...ature=youtu.be

While I appreciate the effort you put into this, I'm also sad we need video evidence when everyone who has played a DPS has said the same thing....

[SmallHobbit]

monk skills are one of the most easiest one because the skills already glowing to tell you "Press me now! here i am please press me!!!" and to make it more fail safe they even dosent work when you press the wrong one and you still need a macro for it
oh boy

regards hobbit

[TheRealMadruck]

So, this thread got me to go make a thing. Here's you go. Here's how your macro stacks up against an actual monk rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFCR...ature=youtu.be

Thank you Helspites for that Video, so you did exactly as I stated and proved exactly my point! Lets do your math....total without Macro's is 2017, total using your modified Macro(good to see you took my information by heart and adjust to it with your playstyle)1747, subtract 1747 from 2017 you get a difference of 264. 264 is a % loss of 13.08 Compared to the Numbers others have said of upwards of 30% or more. Secondly, you state that I made the comment that the DPS loss from the 2nd video applies to my first video...I never said that.....https://youtu.be/GIh6eGFrxFs?t=215 If you clearly look at my 2nd video during my test you clearly saw a 2 line macro compared again to the 5-6 line macro from my first video in which I clearly stated would be a larger DPS loss on my 2nd video! So you make a blanket statement that I said that the dps from my video test from my 2nd video applies to my primary macro from video 1 which is utterly false. So again, the test you did on a 5-6 line item Macro yet again proves my data, that the dps you lose is not as massive as other claim it to be. Now try correctly to do a test on my actual 2nd video macro with only 2 line items and compare the actual dps you lose then.....not the 5-6 line item you claim I stated. But thank you for confirming my data and showing others the misconception that Macros are a severe dps loss when it comes to using them in casual to midcore content....NOT ENDGAME, In which my video clearly states!