Monk Macros with Proper Rotation!

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP[/url]

Kitfox, Like I wrote in the edited first post on the top of this topic.....no matter what proof I have or video evidence with Factual data.....you will consider this subject of using Macros for any reason as a Monk as mute. I have done test Kitfox, your right when you say that I may have a good latency or that stats where not a factor into it......but does that negate that bluntly people make statements that Macros for Monks as a whole no matter the content are worthless based on the notion that all dps drops to 15% or more when factual data I have says otherwise? Really? Did you happen to consider the human factor into your disagreement? I was in the US Army Kitfox and we have a very simple saying for what I did in the service....K.I.S.S(a acronym not the band) it stands for Keep it simple stupid in which I am not calling anyone. That acronym clearly states that the simpler a method is done the more likely the chance of no errors are to occur. So lets say you have the best Monk player in FF14, can you promise me that that Monk will have a 100% uptime in dps with no mistakes while having to throttle lets say for kindness only 18 buttons(Monk has alot more based on buffs and X-Class Abilites) do you think that a player who uses no macros wont screw up his rotation by accidentally pressing the wrong button compared to a person who does macro and only has 12 buttons for discussion sake? Really? Who do you think will more likely make errors more often for the average player? The one with more button bloat or less? If you answer more, that answer is not true based on statistics and basic % in math.

So I can understand your feedback within this subject(btw I did use your information and added it to my video so thank you for that) but it still does not negate the facts of my data on the falsehood that using any Macros on Monk is a massive dps loss...its not true! You do lose dps, even if it is 5% on your example....that does not negate the fact that again according to the numbers since humans make mistakes that the dps and the overall numbers will pretty much end up the same since the Macro using player is less likely to make such errors. I know you will still disagree as I will stand firm on my data I collected based on facts displayed on my recent video, but I hope you decide to give Macros a chance if you play Monk....maybe not for endgame content as that is not the only stuff to do in FF14, but maybe while soloing or doing older content or fates even. But other than that, thank you for your feedback and for being cordial as I wish more players were like yourself in which displaying respect is important to them! Take care.....

[Kitfox]

Did you happen to consider the human factor into your disagreement?

Yes, I consider the human factor. The argument is largely manual vs automatic. Do you want a system to handle things for you, or do you want to handle everything yourself? The thing is, with experience and practice the error margin of input mistakes becomes incredibly small. A person might still make mistakes in their judgement and foresight, timing and mechanics, but action input mistakes on high levels of play are very rare. That's because humans have in-build automation systems in them: muscle memory and scripting (psychology term) of repeated actions. Instead of transfering that muscle memory to a macro, you can keep it in your body, while retaining the ability to be flexible with your input. You brain is way more flexible than the macro system in game.

You also have to consider that the macro system is inherently flawed vs manual input. So, when both sides play perfectly, manual input will always pull ahead. You'll have to consider the chances of input mistakes of both sides, but manual side always has to do more mistakes for the macro side to catch up. You also have to consider the nature of the mistakes both are subjected to. Not all mistakes are related to one's input method. Even if you argue that handling a broader input spectrum would take away from your mental capacity to avoid all kinds of mistakes, you have to remember that muscle memory and practice can take away essentially all overhead related to action input, leaving you with the same capacity to process the rest of the fight.

I'm arguing for the end state of practice. You will end up with essentially the same error margin on both input systems after practising a lot, the difference is that one input system is more versatile and effective than the other one. KISS is a common saying in a lot of fields, not just the army. It's most suitable for situations where people need to pick up new skills very quickly and react under unexpected stressful scenarios. FFXIV gameplay is neither of those. All encouters in the game are very scripted (except PotD), you can practice as much as you want, and do it safely from your home. It's true that you can reach your "complete state" more quickly with a simple macro system, but with ample time and given the fact that you can practice manual input in more scenarios (all classes), you will reach the same state of performance inevitably without it, possibly faster if you also play other classes besides MNK.

The question is, when you're at your best after practising, do you want to be using a flawed system (even if it was only 2%) or the most efficient one? Both will eventually end up with similar error margin for input mistakes.

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Thanks to Axxion earlier in this post, https://www.fflogs.com/reports/McNw7...pe=damage-done If you clearly see that data it shows that the Monk in that party had a 90% uptime in dps. That could be for several reasons....movement, boss being immune to damage, etc.....but I promise you that a portion of that was human error. As you stated about muscle memory and other scenarios, it still does not negate the fact that even IRL Blackbelts in Martial Arts that have attained the highest degrees attainable(there is not a technical cap on Degrees of some Martial Arts btw)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlR_3X9JAuY do not make mistakes....so if thats possible, anyone...even the most proficient Monk in FF14 can have a bad day.

Lastly, watch both of my videos, link me a section in them were I stated that the macros I made were for endgame and they were the only ways to play a Monk in FF14.....I didnt. The data I provided was a guide, a method to correctly do Macros if players choose to....that is all. I admit Macros are a dps loss for Raids and Endgame, it still does not negate the fact that Macros can be extremely useful in many facets of FF14 and also that assuming all players who do Macro will never learn to play Monk properly without Macros is kinda presumptuous wouldn't you say?

[Frowny]

Players should be learning rotations manually because, as I said, some fights WILL require you to adjust. As an example, DRG fits Dragonfire Dive in the opener burst. However, in A9S it is better to save it for the 2 set of adds or even the first so the AoE is maximized over targets (for me personally). Or, in other fights where I need to move, it is better saved so I can quickly re-engage the boss. Not fancy methods by any means, pure experience was my teacher. A macro just creates a bad habit because that "competitive" loss REALLY adds up and rookies will get into the habit of just using macros.

Take a regular 5 minute fight and multiply that, say, 100 DPS loss over 300s. Here and there the loss is meh, but it quickly compounds. Down the line when you want maximum DPS, ANY avoidable loss is not competitive at all; it is a hindrance.

You're free to play however you want, still doesn't mean you're right just like I'm free to argue the earth is flat. Again, if macros were viable the number theorists who come up with optimal rotations would be posting macros instead of number theory and rotations. I'm all for teaching rookies, I however cannot condone teaching bad habits. Before helping people with a system you barely understand, help yourself by learning about what you use.

Alot of the negativity that Macros have gotten comes from the misconception of putting all your abilities into one button to negate the skill level that is required into a game such as FF14.

Absolute bollocks, the negativity comes from the DPS loss and how macros cause delays that stack later on. A DPS loss is a DPS loss period and handicapping yourself isn't "competitive".

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Frowny, I agree with you that if you are doing Extreme fights, Savage Modes, Macros could possibly should not be used, But it still does not negate the data I collected! And you have to remember, Monks rotation is completely different from every other DPS or Tank Class. The rotation is not based on a set button 1 to button 2 to button 3 as Dragoon, Ninja, Paladin, Warrior or Dark Knight. It is based on what stance you are in, and that allows you to create macros for Monk based solely that you can bounce from one ability to another in your combo just from your stance. So you can go from Bootshine to Twin Snakes once you have shifted to the enemies flank from the rear and visa versa with Dragon Kick to True Strike from the back. That is why you can Macro monk effectively not using Cast Sequence macros as Dragoon and Ninja for example would need, but using a simple process of elimination macro. It does work....maybe not for everything in the game.....but it can work for solo or even a large amount of regular content.

[Frowny]

Monks rotation is completely different from every other DPS or Tank Class.

Stop speaking out of your rear. I have a 60 MNK and the stance doesn't mean much: it is still a rotation like DRG when you boil it down (except your opener/stance shifting to get GL right away). It is different in moves, but melee DPS have the same 3 priorities: oGCD buffs, DOTs and GCD buffs. MNK isn't somehow special: it weaves oGCD buffs like my DRG, has positionals, tries to maximize DOT/GCD buff uptime... besides a few differences, the concepts are the same. MNK, DRG, NIN... you don't macro period for the same reason. Swap your bootshine for Heavy Thrust etc. etc.

Honestly, the hardest part of playing MNK is positionals. With practice a rotation becomes pretty mechanic. Again, any sort of avoidable loss is NOT COMPETITIVE, it is a handicap. This has nothing to do with skill, it is about actively encouraging bad habits. If macros were competitive Thendiel and the like would post those instead of rotations (Thendiel is a DRG god by the way). People actively look for ways to make a fight easier, I'm pretty bloody sure a savage raider who helped create the DRG rotation would use macros to reduce what he needed to juggle. This is beyond "I play how I want"; you're completely ignoring the community who, if you were actually right, would have been doing this by now.

Macros are mostly for stance swapping moves (ie. you activate a stance and your hotbar changes) or crafting.

[shao32]

monk combos are just flank, rea,r flank, rear all the time, you only change demolish for snap punch bcs betwen 1 demolish you can finish 2 combos with snap punch.

monk is a fast figter you need to put all the ogcd betwen you gcd and have it all alwais on recast, the delay of macro system is a complety waste of time and lower you dps a lot more when monk have a large number of ogcd, yeah macros can "work" but in the end you lower you performance a lot for being extremly lazy, even if you do rear and flank combos without any change and use you ogcd manually when you can you dealt more dps bcs you working more faster that the macros.

[TheRealMadruck]

monk combos are just flank, rea,r flank, rear all the time, you only change demolish for snap punch bcs betwen 1 demolish you can finish 2 combos with snap punch.

monk is a fast figter you need to put all the ogcd betwen you gcd and have it all alwais on recast, the delay of macro system is a complety waste of time and lower you dps a lot more when monk have a large number of ogcd, yeah macros can "work" but in the end you lower you performance a lot for being extremly lazy, even if you do rear and flank combos without any change and use you ogcd manually when you can you dealt more dps bcs you working more faster that the macros.

Shao, If you watch both of my videos you will clearly see that I do not place all my GCD on one button as they are seperate on my tool bar. The Macros I made are only for the last 2 parts of the 3 step combos, thats all. Bootshine nor Dragon Kick are in the Macros, just the last 2 parts. If you still doubt the information, please watch my demo video I created on me doing a simple Monk Combo for 2 minutes with and without a Macro. In that time frame I lost 2%, so if you have 2 monks.....one doing 2k dps while another doing 1960 in a 15 minute fight, the 2k Monk will do 90k dps in that time while the Macroed Monk will do 88k! Again in 15 minutes you lose only 2k dps in 15 minutes and thats not including if the person using no Macros hasnt made any mistakes in regards to human error.

[Neri]

He needs to get to 60 first though, not to mention fully equipped before trying the sss too.

[Axxion]

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/McNw7...pe=damage-done on Faust z