Have we moved to an age where taking hate as a dps = bad dps instead of bad tank?

[Jandor]

Pulling hate as dps is fun though

I agree, in casual content it can be kind of funny. However you've got admit, once you've ripped aggro the jokes pretty much over, may as well stop for a second and let the tank take it back.

[Chubby13]

I agree, in casual content it can be kind of funny. However you've got admit, once you've ripped aggro the jokes pretty much over, may as well stop for a second and let the tank take it back.

But how else are we suppose to watch the headless chickens run away from us when they rip aggro... that is the highlight of my run as tank, people who somehow by some miracle rip aggro off me as tank and run AWAY from me expecting that will save them.

[Shurrikhan]

But how else are we suppose to watch the headless chickens run away from us when they rip aggro... that is the highlight of my run as tank, people who somehow by some miracle rip aggro off me as tank and run AWAY from me expecting that will save them.

I just pop defensives and swap in when I take aggro, even move the boss as it usually would be if necessary. But then again, that's on Monk, where I don't really have any other means of recourse left. Or on Bard, after having used Quelling Strikes with every Raging Strikes burn period, and having already started a slightly early Ballad... In the meanwhile though, I often have a NIN sitting there seemingly without Smoke Screen on his hotbars. (Obviously not as kind a NIN as ReplicaX.)

(Btw, I too use Shadewalker within the opener itself to maximize its enmity transfer, especially in casual content where the potion oGCD isn't going to be used. Not sure why some tanks will freak out about getting more out of it, especially as its after the Tomahawk and first combo that they would otherwise start losing threat normally.)

[Leadleaf]

Pulling hate as dps is fun though

Only when a tankbusting cleave's due tbh

[Shurrikhan]

Ideally, if there's a way to weave Elusive Jump without a dps loss and there's no Monk present to make the act irrelevant, then even the DRG should be using his enmity reduction to allow the tank a larger enmity margin. If the NIN isn't using Shadewalker (not just saving it for adds, etc., but outright not using it), then he's wasting some amount of raid dps that was free to his job. And of course the same is true of Quelling Strikes, though much less powerfully.

On the whole, yes the tank should be establishing a large enough margin to hold even as he cycles through his dps priorities as they come up, but there would have been more than enough enmity had the DPS not been purposely neglecting use tools that are free to them, then that would be at least as much on the DPS as well.

[ReplicaX]

Ninjas get enough bad rep as it is for many not utilizing the job.

I always utilize Shade, SS, and Goad when needed.

Things I come across in DF:

Tank Example:
Shadewalker is only 15 secs. The tank can waste 5secs of it just pulling or putting it into a specific position. Why I pop it right before my opener. Stop asking for it prepull. You will get it as the last thing I wanna do is rip hate off my opener.

If a Tank wants to DPS opener / stance on pull. I'm using shade on my opener anyway and SS if required for others.

Another example, only DPS:

I've watched plenty of DPS remove my SS intentionally and refuse to use Quelling. I've seen this mostly from BLMs (high on hate bar) and MCHs (Opener/Wildfire).

There are plenty of times I strip hate after Shade, that is just signs of a tank not properly establishing their own hate or they are literally heavily under geared.

I'm not perfect, but I damn well try to utilize the most out of the job I am playing.

[Johaandr]

I use quelling strike and when it run off my emnity takes me to nr2 spot somehow.

[Johaandr]

So TANKS JOB IS TO TAKE AGGRO.
Its like telling healers NOT to dps.
!! Nobody seems to agree at anything at all !!

[SmallHobbit]

I was in A12 as BLM and I was about to take hate off the DRK tanking without grit. So I said "put tank stance on pls". Then the party jumped on me saying "you use quelling strikes".
Then a similar thing happened when I was in a dungeon, a ninja took hate off the PLD (again who was in sword oath), and died, he complained at the tank to keep hate and got berated for not learning to use shadewalker.

THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN TO A WAR because he is aggro king in dps stance!

DRK has the worst aggro managemant without grit and PLD is just something between the other.

but yeah i can understand that in a savage raids you wanna max dps output where you can expect for the group use quelling strikes and ninja buffs but out of savage, tanks has prio... of aggro -> max. dps, same as for healers first healing than dps.
usally even tank in dps stance can get allways aggro back just by doing a aggro combo but usally this is not the max dps rotation thats why tanks mostly dont wanna do it.

anyway just try to do your job good and use quellingstrikes and dont care what tanks say a DRG/MONK dont have any of this skills anyway.

regards hobbit

[Gumbercules]

Well idk about others, but if i pull hate on a tank in a dungeon, and my QS is still on CD, I tend to take that as my bad :P That being said there are alot of tanks that don't use proper openers to give them that edge in aggro so they can coaster the rest of the fight dps ing so imo hate is everyone's responsibility in ff 14.