Class Reforms & New Job System

[AdorraEloom]

If any of the Feedback I'm about to give is not accurate due to my understanding of the new job reforms I apologize in advance but as it stands, this is my understanding of the job reforms based on the latest update on class reforms and the problems I find with it.

Let's take Marauder for example, a Marauder is basically a warrior job yes? So based on the latest post, a Marauder will unlock warrior, now there will be warrior abilities that will be exclusive to warrior that a marauder can not use and marauder abilities that a warrior can not use, why not just completely abolish the marauder and go warrior only? I find it frustrating knowing that I could be on warrior but not have access to all warrior abilities because some of them are on the marauder job, so basically what I'm saying is it will feel like my warrior is only half a warrior because some of the abilities are trapped on the marauder job ex...

Another problem I find with this, is the inventory being tied up even more due to the flooding of yet again more weapons/armor to carry, example again the marauder, now we will need to carry Marauder weapons/armor and Warrior weapons/armor for essentially the same job...

I understand we are trying to fix the job situation and to make them more distinct, how ever I strongly feel that this is not the way to go upon this, as I feel this new system does not change much besides splitting up a class into two that are basically the same thing. I also understand that we can not start over with regards to the class system as players have already put in a lot of time into ranking/leveling up their classes but I feel this is not the correct solution.

My solution would be as follows.

First change the name of the current classes cause essentially this is what they are anyways:

Marauder = Warrior
Gladiator = Paladin
Pugilist = Monk
Lancer = Dragoon
Archer = Ranger (not sure why this one is going bard?... Confused)
Conjurer = White Mage
Thaumaturge = Black Mage

After the name change, redo all the abilities and skills for each job making them unique, Also if a player has already ranked up a Marauder before the name change to a warrior let their warrior be the same rank as their Marauder was since basically all that has happened was the class name has changed.

After the name change more "Jobs' could be implemented via quests and other means, like Red mage, Bard, and so on.

Another solution is to just keep the current names of classes and just adjusting their traits/abilities/skills. But I strongly feel that Splitting up classes into 2 jobs essentially being the same thing but requiring the player to carry more gear so they can fully utilize their new job not only is it complicated but also adds more time into UI management by the player (macros, inventory, ex..)

Thanks for reading this post and again if I fully don't understand the new system please scratch this post.

[Betelgeuzah]

Because Warrior is very restricted in terms of what it can do, while a Marauder is not. If you take away MRD and just lump everything on Warrior it turns into a swiss knife. The point is to distinguish Jobs from one another through specialization without restricting people's ability to perform in a solo/lowman situation too much.

MRD is not the same thing as WAR.

[Betelgeuzah]

Let me put this into FFXI terms.

In FFXI you had the Job system. Jobs either specialized in a certain role or were jack-of-all-trades. JoaT's were shunned on because when you could have each person excel in one role, there was no need for JoaT outside lowman/solo situation. FFXI also had the subjob system but because most Jobs could excel in one role, the benefits of going cross-role were pretty negligible for balance reasons (you couldn't step on anyone's toes just by subbing a certain job). This didn't work all the time though as some Jobs received hefty benefits that arguably killed Job balance for some aspects of the game, like healing or tanking.

Now FFXIV's Job/Class system is different in the regard that when you do play as a Job (like in XI), you lose the ability to go cross-role but become more efficient in the one role you end up (and excel) with. On the other hand, once you play as a Class you no longer excel in one role and as the exchange for this loss in speciality you also gain improved cross-roleability (at least when compared to XI's). In a nutshell you become a JoaT for the situations that demand it while not giving up your performance in group situations where being most efficient at one role is preferred.

In FFXI to become a JoaT or excel in some field you were forced to level a new Job, or use subjob combinations that stepped on other Jobs' shoes (Utsusemi tanking for example). In FFXIV every player is provided with the opportunity to be a JoaT or a specialist, whichever the situation demands for. In exchange you either lose efficiency as a one-trick-pony or the ability to obtain the (negligible in balanced cases) cross-role bonuses.

I didn't edit my last post because a Yakuza threatened to kill me if I did. True story.

[AdorraEloom]

Thanks for the input ^^, I specially like the "I didn't edit my last post because a Yakuza Threatened to kill me" part ^^

[AdorraEloom]

I guess my biggest fear is inventory issues (as I do play every craft and job in the game and already find myself having a lot of problems as it is with inventory, having to create an alt and spent time transferring Items on a daily basis), I also don't like too many options, example being pug and monk, both will be very close to being the same yet there is 2 to chose from, too many decisions stresses me out I guess.

[Sanlord]

If any of the Feedback I'm about to give is not accurate due to my understanding of the new job reforms I apologize in advance but as it stands, this is my understanding of the job reforms based on the latest update on class reforms and the problems I find with it.

Let's take Marauder for example, a Marauder is basically a warrior job yes? So based on the latest post, a Marauder will unlock warrior, now there will be warrior abilities that will be exclusive to warrior that a marauder can not use and marauder abilities that a warrior can not use, why not just completely abolish the marauder and go warrior only? I find it frustrating knowing that I could be on warrior but not have access to all warrior abilities because some of them are on the marauder job, so basically what I'm saying is it will feel like my warrior is only half a warrior because some of the abilities are trapped on the marauder job ex...

Another problem I find with this, is the inventory being tied up even more due to the flooding of yet again more weapons/armor to carry, example again the marauder, now we will need to carry Marauder weapons/armor and Warrior weapons/armor for essentially the same job...

I understand we are trying to fix the job situation and to make them more distinct, how ever I strongly feel that this is not the way to go upon this, as I feel this new system does not change much besides splitting up a class into two that are basically the same thing. I also understand that we can not start over with regards to the class system as players have already put in a lot of time into ranking/leveling up their classes but I feel this is not the correct solution.

My solution would be as follows.

First change the name of the current classes cause essentially this is what they are anyways:

Marauder = Warrior
Gladiator = Paladin
Pugilist = Monk
Lancer = Dragoon
Archer = Ranger (not sure why this one is going bard?... Confused)
Conjurer = White Mage
Thaumaturge = Black Mage

After the name change, redo all the abilities and skills for each job making them unique, Also if a player has already ranked up a Marauder before the name change to a warrior let their warrior be the same rank as their Marauder was since basically all that has happened was the class name has changed.

After the name change more "Jobs' could be implemented via quests and other means, like Red mage, Bard, and so on.

Another solution is to just keep the current names of classes and just adjusting their traits/abilities/skills. But I strongly feel that Splitting up classes into 2 jobs essentially being the same thing but requiring the player to carry more gear so they can fully utilize their new job not only is it complicated but also adds more time into UI management by the player (macros, inventory, ex..)

Thanks for reading this post and again if I fully don't understand the new system please scratch this post.

Sorry but I prefer to have 7 classes + 7 jobs instead 7 advanced classes only.

errrg MNK will use PGL abilities... and BRD will use a HarpBow... then the bard will be able to stay far and still attack while give us buffs

[Claire_Pendragon]

The sole reason jobs were made, were for 2 reasons.
(1) the main reason, Yoshida didn't just want to continue doing things "Tanaka's Way", and honestly, I understand this, and would find ways to bend the current system to something that fits my style.
Yoshida wanted less JoaT feel, to give the job/roles some more limited specialization, so it could be kept under control easier. (As time comes, who knows what doors will open, but for now we will have some limits.)
He knew people would get a little TOO pissed, if he removed class swapping abilities, or took away allot of the useful 'solo' abilities, that make most classes JoaTs.

So now comes the 2nd idea, that allowed for this 1st one, to be complete.
(2) People complained the game is for casuals (I'm a casual player, but I don;t agree with the following personally.) and that needing to level so many classes, was preventing them from "Playing the game fully as just one class." which Tanaka originally promised.
So the job system, was a way to "enhance" current classes, so they don't need to use other class abilities, and be a specialized role.
Some theorize it might be possible to still be good as a class, mixing all the right cross class abilities. (aka still not a waste of time having taken up so many classes .)

Over all I think Yoshida is all in favor of "No classes, only Jobs", but because of the mentioned points, will go this route.
It's not to my liking, but it's not too bad of a concept, to fix what he/others think are a problem.

The inventory issue is something that does need to be addressed (and will be slightly, with each class getting a special "bag" space, to keep gear for it, and won't take up normal inventory.) But with the "gear bag" system, will it also include Jobs?
If so, then there is no problem.
But making gear that is MRD only or WAR only, rather than MRD AND WAR only, will be just 1 more problem to deal with.

[Scherwiz]

The sole reason jobs were made, were for 2 reasons.
(1) the main reason, Yoshida didn't just want to continue doing things "Tanaka's Way", and honestly, I understand this, and would find ways to bend the current system to something that fits my style.
Yoshida wanted less JoaT feel, to give the job/roles some more limited specialization, so it could be kept under control easier. (As time comes, who knows what doors will open, but for now we will have some limits.)
He knew people would get a little TOO pissed, if he removed class swapping abilities, or took away allot of the useful 'solo' abilities, that make most classes JoaTs.

So now comes the 2nd idea, that allowed for this 1st one, to be complete.
(2) People complained the game is for casuals (I'm a casual player, but I don;t agree with the following personally.) and that needing to level so many classes, was preventing them from "Playing the game fully as just one class." which Tanaka originally promised.
So the job system, was a way to "enhance" current classes, so they don't need to use other class abilities, and be a specialized role.
Some theorize it might be possible to still be good as a class, mixing all the right cross class abilities. (aka still not a waste of time having taken up so many classes .)

Over all I think Yoshida is all in favor of "No classes, only Jobs", but because of the mentioned points, will go this route.
It's not to my liking, but it's not too bad of a concept, to fix what he/others think are a problem.

The inventory issue is something that does need to be addressed (and will be slightly, with each class getting a special "bag" space, to keep gear for it, and won't take up normal inventory.) But with the "gear bag" system, will it also include Jobs?
If so, then there is no problem.
But making gear that is MRD only or WAR only, rather than MRD AND WAR only, will be just 1 more problem to deal with.

Not to make your number one and Yoshi (if he has ever actually said GRRRR NO TANAKA STUFF) sound stupid or anything, but Tanaka created the original "job system" for FFIII so by not wanting to follow these so called Tanaka "ideals," he has decided to use a Tanaka created system... just saying.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Not to make your number one and Yoshi (if he has ever actually said GRRRR NO TANAKA STUFF) sound stupid or anything, but Tanaka created the original "job system" for FFIII so by not wanting to follow these so called Tanaka "ideals," he has decided to use a Tanaka created system... just saying.

I don;t actually mean it like that.
Just more so a 'JoaT' issue.
Be it made by Tanaka or not, wasn't really the inspiration to his decisions.

[AdorraEloom]

Thanks for the feedback everyone ^^ I'm starting to understand a little more how this new system will work. If in fact the current jobs will have the ability to use abilities from other jobs like MRD using CON cure spell, while warrior will be unique to only use its own abilities than this whole new system could actually work, allowing both the casual and hardcore players some room to thrive.

Yoshida has done a fantastic job so far and I have no reason to believe that this will be any different. I'm trying to understand this more as it's hard to find full details as to what is exactly being implemented with this change.

Again thank you for the positive and useful replies =)

Happy hunting ^_^