The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Oh no, you still can't use it in the Feast. Think of it like an FC chat, but team only.

[Titor]

Bring back feast chat

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

That's the thing. You can't guarantee they know what they did wrong, and you wouldn't need a PvP LS if - IF you were able to simply speak to a teammate when it really matters.

I've made mistakes and gotten POLITE tells offering tips and advice too. I can't verify the truth of the story, nor what was said and how, but it would hardly be the first time someone's reacted poorly to being given advice. Hell, I've had people just leave the dueling circle when ask permission to offer helpful tips (usually after seeing them lose for lack of knowing/doing something). The bigger point is that sending tells wouldn't be necessary IF players could actually communicate with each other, and I think it's a bigger insult that SE pretty much says we all can't behave ourselves, so no one gets to speak at all.

[RiyahArp]

With chat or without doesn't matter much. He might have left before you could say anything after the match. Just don't /tell someone after a lost match pointing out what they did wrong and giving advice; it's not the right time to do it because they still are dealing with the adrenaline and emotions from it, and tbh you are too. Its better to say something positive, which is why I mentioned the shell: "Hey, it sucked we lost but it was a close match. Wanna join my pvp shell so we can try again sometime?" This is just an aside; chat or no chat, try not to offer advice right after a bitter or emotional loss.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

What better time to offer advice than right after? Let time pass and perhaps that person won't even remember what happened. Or worse, lose another match for themselves and their team for lack of knowing. But really, we assume too much. Fact is, they were offered advice and rather than take it, or even ignore it, they chose instead to be petty and report it as harrassment. Who was really being "toxic" there? Again, neither one of us can say without knowing what exactly was said, but the fact remains that that wouldn't even be necessary were it not for this "fix" creating more problems than it solved.

[Mofafafa]

I mean, its clearly the "tank" that i spoke of isn't understanding that what was the losing condition that he could've won the game if he understand whats happening in the first place, this wouldn't be happened...

We as the players got punished for SE decision to implement the Chat Restriction. If there isn't any discussion going on and giving feedbacks based on the match's performance, how are the community is going to improve??
Now we are back to square one where the *PLAYERS* who deemed the PvP toxic because they do not want to accept feedbacks based on their lackluster performance because they simply do not accept criticism, same goes for PvE
Harassment is another case.

Usually every game will have discussion going on when win or lose and giving feedbacks to each other to improve, some player even records the whole game to check what went wrong or could've done better...

Just because the "player" is sensitive, it does not simply give him a reason to ruin the other 3 party members experience because of him not accepting criticism to improve the quality of game-play in a game.

[RiyahArp]

You don't criticize someone right after the match in an intrusive /tell, especially if you don't know them. If you were an actual team, you'd hit the showers first and let the athletes get over the emotional impact of loss, then you meet up and get out the whiteboards and show the game and what happened, and then work together analyzing mistakes. But you aren't that guys coach, nor do you have the right really to do this; you're just some random guy suddenly /telling them after the match from afar, and someone who really doesn't have the same connection. So if you try to do this, its adversarial from the start because you haven't really built that team connection. And people don't often act polite if they do that; the anger at a loss through no fault of your own is pretty strong, and can color how you try to "help" the person.

This is also behin the same fear people have with parsers. You can't just be random internetguy and intrude via tell to criticize from a position of authority, even if you werent the one who screwed up. You need that team relationship first, so that the person isn't on edge from the intrusion and also isn't dealing with your anger at him losing the game for you. It's just really bad to try and /tell someone and immediately assume that authority of coach when you've never even seen the guy before or talked to him in game, especially when it has to do with performance issues. But if you invite him into a pvp linkshell and make him part of the team in a sense, it works much better for everyone. Power dynamics can screw stuff up pretty badly, and this is just even if you try to be polite; I was reamed out personally in a tell after by someone with no real basis than losing as a healer (against rum raisin of all people, it was that early in the feast)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No Riyah.

First, you have the mistaken impression that it's criticism when sometimes it's really just passing along helpful advice.

"Hey man, when we're ahead like that and time's running out, it's better if we pull back and ride it out rather than take the risk."
"Make sure you won't be picking up too many medals before grabbing them next time. If so, let someone else get them."
"Hey, next time let's try to go after the same target together. We might be able to get them before their healer can react."

Nothing toxic at all in those words, and things I've actually said to others before, right after a match. As I said before, most times it's better to reflect and breakdown what happened right away while it's still fresh to remember. Sure, sometimes you might need to calm down first, but any athlete worth something will be receptive to advice, even after a win.

[jameseoakes]

Nothing toxic at all in those words, and things I've actually said to others before, right after a match. As I said before, most times it's better to reflect and breakdown what happened right away while it's still fresh to remember. Sure, sometimes you might need to calm down first, but any athlete worth something will be receptive to advice, even after a win.

We're not Athletes though Thunder, we're people playing a game and in my experience of the chat with randoms people didn't really give advice once the game was over they just insulted you if they didn't think you should be playing

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

We're not Athletes though Thunder, we're people playing a game and in my experience of the chat with randoms people didn't really give advice once the game was over they just insulted you if they didn't think you should be playing

I approach this game with the mindset of an athlete, rather, I approach competition in that manner. If I'm going to do something, I want to do it well. I won't always do it well, but I will try. That's all you can ask of someone. Now, if someone gives advice - and mind you, I've given plenty based on experience and still been told I'm wrong - it may be worth listening if it's constructive. At a certain point, you've got to stop wearing your feelings on your sleeve or thinking they're all out to get you and listen and wisen up. Opponents who want to win as bad as you do are not going to pull any punches, and not every person you meet in your adventures is going to have something nice to say. If you're ready to cry wolf and refuse to listen when people are actually being nice and helpful, you're in for a real bad time when they won't be.

Mind you, this is no excuse for nasty tells or rude behavior. I've stated this. We can share all the annecdotal experiences we want. For every person that got a nasty tell, I've gotten a heartfelt thank you, or answered questions and given or received advice from some of the top players on my data center, and imparted that same knowledge to others. The PvP community was too small to be trying to force people out or burn bridges. HOWEVER, I can't pretend I didn't see the same issues there that I've seen in PvE content: People either refuse to, or don't care to learn, and everyone has a poorer experience for it.

With nothing but the facts presented, we're left with this: The tank didn't listen when told - via Quick Chat - to fall back, and his team suffered a loss for it. That person took the time to explain what happened and why they lost, and rather than listen OR ask any questions if unsure, they took it as a personal attack, and retaliated. If it were SE's plan to create a competitive environment where everyone is forced into silence lest even the kindest word be taken out of context (irony considering the most sarcastically spammed QC phrase) we'd have a much, MUCH bigger problem than players being nasty toward one another. Because if players can't share and help each other, those who know will continue to win, and those who don't will lose repeatedly, until perhaps they somehow figure it out. And when those two are put on the same team, one will certainly be more of a liability to the other. And I've said it before: I don't know anyone who enjoys losing a game, especially due to the actions of others.