Objection to the new adjustment for PGL, they gonna make this class useless in PT.

[Nagamaki]

Accoding to the actions list, the only evasion based ability that isn't getting axed is Jarring Strike, ie PGL WS 9. There isn't another evasion counter WS so no Haymaker at all, can't be class exclusive if it no longer exists. If the name/animation are reused at all, it'll be as one of the many standard weaponskills so whether you are tanking or not is not an issue.

Simian Thrash, assuming the name and animation are reused, is being converted into a normal WS without an evasion requirement that is even part of a combo, PGL WS 3. The text mentions low damage and it being toned down a little was to be expected with the requirement being removed, it could still have pretty decent potential. Either way, PGL will retain 1 evasion counter (the weakest, utility one) so complaining about the evasion requirements at this point is a waste of time.

Where there is legitimate cause for concern is in the the balance between the following elements: base damage (unbuffed), effectiveness of the damage boost from kicks/elemental modes, rate of MP consumption of those modes and effectiveness of the MP recovery tools. Balancing these elements properly would be a challenge for anyone but given the current, very poor compensation offered by Featherfoot for the MP costs of Light Strike and Pummel, being worried about potential issues is natural especially since cross-class MP abilities don't seem likely to be as effective as Siphon MP.

If base damage over time is close to comparable with other classes, then the buffs can't be too strong without breaking balance unless the MP cost is extremely high. If base damage is significantly lower and doing acceptable damage requires having the buffs active the majority of the time, the cost needs to be balanced so that this can be achieved. You also have to take into account the presence or lack of a bard to give refresh, whether the refresh (MP) song will stack with the regain (TP) and accuracy songs, how practical separating songs will be if you can't just stack them all, etc.

All in all a fairly complex balancing act and expecting the devs to get it right the first time is highly unrealistic, but expecting them to get it horribly wrong and let it remain horribly wrong forever after is also ridiculous. While certain things about SE haven't changed quite as much as they'd like us to believe, denying the change in their attitude when it comes to addressing glaring balance issues is just ridiculous, if anything at this point they've been overcompensating. They realize the game will fail if they don't achieve interesting and balanced results, it might take a few steps to get there but they are actually willing to take those steps as problems come up instead of the early XI attitude of pretending there was nothing wrong for years and then nerfing or buffing certain elements with the delicate subtlety of a jackhammer without even acknowledging that there was a problem at all.

[SniperRifle]

Personally I'm pretty stoked to try PGL/MNK out after 1.21. I never took thf higher then 37 and monk never above 18 (on my 3 accounts) in FF11. However, once new jobs come out I'm interested in giving ones I did not have an interest in before another chance.

This: PGL Abl. 2 Makes your next attack a crit when executed from behind the target. Traits may trigger INT bonus.

and this: MNK Abl. 1 Temporarily increases attack speed.

are what swayed my decision. After seeing how useful Blindeside II is on Ifrit, and how simply 1 or 2 key abilities can make or break a class (SATA - THF, Utsusemi - NIN, Souleater - DRK) in FF11. I'll just wait to see how things are once they come out. I already know what I want to play. I'm just curious to see if I can get a 2nd chance to play classes I never dug to deep into in FF11, but in FF14.

[Zozor]

pgl is already useless. Any dev attention at all is a good thing.

[Zoltan]

Bring back MNK guard and make players skill it up to be useful.

[Estellios]

I think you could use Taunt to force the enemy to hit you for MP recovery when you're not the tank, especially since Taunt itself doesn't give you any "real" enmity as far as I know. The real problem is that taunt currently doesn't last very long and it *might* need to have its recast time lowered to do this consistently. There's that MP recovery or drain WS that PGL is getting that might be useful, too.

I have been playing PGL with some of my friends' side classes, and having a lot of fun with it. The stances are how I feel PGL should have been in the first place (based on the original class concepts they showed us years ago) so I'm excited to take it up later.

[Viridiana]

PGL Abl. 3: Temporarily focuses the target's attacks on you. Sounds like an enmity ability to me.

Nope. That's just like Taunt is now: makes the enemy attack you, does next to nothing for enmity. Well, Taunt at the moment is slightly better than Disorient, but Disorient is definitely the better of the two when you consider cooldowns.

[Teknoman]

As long as they make elemental weaknesses more apparent, Pugilist/Monk sounds like it'll be a great, fast elemental melee attacker.

[Elexia]

As long as they make elemental weaknesses more apparent, Pugilist/Monk sounds like it'll be a great, fast elemental melee attacker.

^ This. We simply don't know what's going to happen till it's implemented and experiencing it. They may do what they did to FFXI in...2004/2005 and apply a Magical patch, which fixed (or nerfed in the words of manaburners) magic resistances and calculations.

So elemental fists of fury could likely be the best thing to happen to battle strategy for all we know.

[Wevlum]

Exactly the True, and you don't want it to ever stop being useless?

I don't know what is SE standard to repeat the problem ever and ever, they said each class will have their clear definition and role. However, clearly that PGL doesn't have one. It end up being 3rd rate tank, 2nd rate DD. and 3rd rate debuff.

What is this...I don't even.

All classes currently have debuff skills according to this class redesign so lets knock that one on the head (p.s. they all have debuffs currently too).

There are other DD jobs with tanking skills as well (MRD) that doesnt make them a second rate DD now does it?

My actual point was, compared to what we have currently *anything* would have been an improvement but if you read the rest of my post I actually described what I liked about the new PGL. PGL appears to be a frontline elemental attacker that can change stance depending on the situation, that appears to be its role. Kick+haste+fire = punch the jesus out of the enemy, oh I pulled too much hate, switch to earth or wind stance.

It looks great and I can't wait to try it out. If the MP restore skills and the MP consumed are both reasonable then the MP element will just add more strategy/skill in how we play our class.

[AmyRae]

As i said, that would be too late. And no, with all the MMO trend, if they balance it right, any class that can do everything = the class that is unwanted in PT.

the route for PGL as current plan = either over power or being unwanted.

Too late for what? I've seen nothing that couldn't be easily balanced if there's a problem.

Making use of the MP bar can give Pugilists and Monks an advantage over classes and jobs that don't. MP doesn't tap into your TP resources, so you literally have two sources of power rather than just one. If you can restore your MP through weaponskills, cross-class abilities, and spoony Bards, you're a much more effective player than someone who only has TP at their command.