Would you improve if the content required it?

[JunseiKei]

The biggest issue with Steps was that it was a very long fight and even if things went badly and you knew there was NO WAY you were going to pull out a victory, you still had to wait for the dragon to waddle ALL THE WAY down to the other end and end the fight.

The fight isn't any longer than other fights, really, even before its nerf. The issue was a lot of people just weren't aware of its kind of mechanics; first time I set foot in there with hubby, we were both giddy with delight on how much the fight was similar to Monster Hunter Freedom Unite's Lao-Shang Lung. For this reason, we told the others what to based solely on hunches; things like don't be under the feet, drag mobs to under Vishap's chin and cannon's can blow them up; bind and use the "dragonater" on Vishap (I still don't know what FFXIV has named that thing >_>).

Sometimes I just think that most people that have issues falling prey to mechanics simply haven't been exposed to other elements from other games. I was actually surprised it took Stone Vigil Hardmode to see our first Monster Hunter- like fights surface, again in Steps of Faith and again in Bismarck. You know, considering how insanely popular Monster Hunter is in Japan and the fact there were some cross over event items from Square Enix in Capcom's Monster Hunter going on at that time.

Challenging fights with true randomness

Hardly exists in any game due to the ridiculous amount of resources and time it takes to actually put in true random. Though few will ever believe this statement.

[Cenerae]

Depends on the kind of difficulty we're talking about.

Are we talking about real difficulty (mechanics are challenging), or are we talking about putting arbitrary timers on things to force you to be good enough with your job and have enough gear to pass?

The former I'm all for. The latter is something that really annoys me. Not that I hate the idea of 'gittin' gud, scrub' or anything, but being unable to beat something soley because I didn't go and grind enough gear ticks me off.

Not that I'm saying gear should never be a factor either - but for example, I don't have any motivation to challenge most of the superbosses in the Final Fantasy series. Because I'd have to spend hours grinding just to get strong enough to be able to fight it. For a payoff that's not worth it. In FF14, if I had to grind for hours to get strong enough to do basic stuff like MSQ scenarios, that wouldn't be worth it.

[Stanelis]

http://www.strawpoll.me/11714129

I wish to see the general consensus on improvement. Please do answer honestly.

That's a bad question. The right question would be to ask wether people would want to improve to beat a challenging fun and entertaining content.

The issue with the so called endgame community in MMORPG is that it give only feedback to the developpers regarding the difficulty of a content, but not on the entertaining factor of the encounter. Yet the only way will get out of their way and try to challenge hard content is if said content is entertaining. Difficulty for the sake of difficulty (as in the first floors of alexander savage) is not entertaining (hence the small number of players who actually attempted that content).

[The_NPC]

the most basic answer is "Challange vs Reward" to u'r question OP, if its stupid hard for something super lame (Mount/title) then only those who have masocistic tendencies will grind it (or those who just want the challange) now if the reward was a buff or slight stat boost (like u beat coil t5 & get the achievement u get 5 more of those selectable bonus stats) or gear that actually lasts more than next patch then u might make a masocist outa ppl who normally arn't (& the clear runner sellers would probably increase as well... but I'd exspect it by now)

Now put said "Stupid Hard" challange in MSQ with a "u can't reach end game stuff without it" like Steps of Faith was then u get something thats bad for buisness, especially in a game that even the creators treat like a "Theampark MMO". Prime example is the uber-nerf they gave Steps when they realized the player bace as a whole ant that good... or wanted to be (yes ppl did beat it pre-nerf, I was 1, it was hard for a person who hadn't touched Coil back then)

my personal answer to the y/n question is: Yes but as long as the challange was hard enouf to teach u something that u could learn & better u'rself from & not insta-death, unrecoverable, party-wipefest of salty rage tears... that just is asking for internal conflict & unsubbing.

[Talraen]

I have no interest in making the game harder. If I want challenge, I'll play a hard single-player game where I'm not going to feel bad for screwing up or get mad at someone else for screwing up.

It's also a question of how they made it harder. If they used the exact system they have now, but required better gear, that would be terrible because people at minimum item levels wouldn't be able to keep up. If they increase minimum item levels, the content becomes too hard to get to. If they decrease the gap between minimum item levels and maximum item levels, there's nothing to look forward to. If they synced every content to a specific item level to prevent it from getting easier over time, there's no reason to get more gear. On the other hand, if they made mechanics harder, it would turn off a lot of players and make PUG runs exponentially more frustrating. Keep the challenge in raids and not everywhere, please.

[Moomba33]

Depends on the content and how far off I was from being able to complete it.
Overall I'd say no though. I play XIV for relaxation not challenge.

[Antonio_Xul]

Yes I would like to improve, but I am turned off to raiding not, because it's hard, but because of the uppity d'bags that swarm to it and talk crap to people who are trying to learn it. People learn by making mistakes, these types of "hardcore" will have none of it. I watch videos to prepare, but you don't learn really until you're in it and fail here and there.

In summary, I like difficult content, but dislike the attitude of the people that run them.

[Jim_Berry]

Yes I would like to improve, but I am turned off to raiding not, because it's hard, but because of the uppity d'bags that swarm to it and talk crap to people who are trying to learn it. People learn by making mistakes, these types of "hardcore" will have none of it. I watch videos to prepare, but you don't learn really until you're in it and fail here and there.

In summary, I like difficult content, but dislike the attitude of the people that run them.

Yep, and fflogs makes it worse. People seem to use fflogs to bash others rather than saying, "Hey, Jim... On fflogs, I saw that your dps was only 1k. Did you know that you can do 1.2k if you used more Dark Arts before Souleater?" But nope. It's "Your DRK OT is crappy with only 800 dps."

[Frowny]

Yep, and fflogs makes it worse. People seem to use fflogs to bash others rather than saying, "Hey, Jim... On fflogs, I saw that your dps was only 1k. Did you know that you can do 1.2k if you used more Dark Arts before Souleater?" But nope. It's "Your DRK OT is crappy with only 800 dps."

Really? Everytime I queue for Savage my fflogs are never mentioned... and I KNOW I can do much better. The only time I see bashing is "hey, BLM/SMN we need more AoE". In my almost 2 years or so I've NEVER seen what you claimed happens nor have I heard about it beyond the usual "hey, you messed up your rotation".

And if all you guys get are uppity dbags... if this is PF then your servers are horrible. When I started Savage I got nothing but support and people trying to hook us rookies up.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes I would like to improve, but I am turned off to raiding not, because it's hard, but because of the uppity d'bags that swarm to it and talk crap to people who are trying to learn it. People learn by making mistakes, these types of "hardcore" will have none of it. I watch videos to prepare, but you don't learn really until you're in it and fail here and there.

In summary, I like difficult content, but dislike the attitude of the people that run them.

This is a tired misconception. Yes, there are jerk raiders, but there are plenty of awesome ones. On Balmung, we've started a whole Discord on gathering people who enjoy raiding to help network and I've come across a lot of pretty chill people. Don't let a few arseholes ruin it for you. The Creator is by far the most approachable raid content FFXIV's had in years. I highly recommend looking into it, be it on Zalera or another server if necessary.