[Personal Opinion] FFXIV is too casual friendly

[bswpayton]

I think its a lack of tolerance and understanding, I would hope that people runnin the same dungeons for a few years now would be alot better than players who hve been playing about 6 months. Ive seen so many vets leave and give up on new players Ive never seen a new player abandon, this game is just like everything else in life some catch up faster than others. But if you dont want bad players around are u doing anything to help the cause. Im an average player its many people that can play a battle class better than me, but what I dont do is leave a dungeon, what i try not to do is pull something before explaining certain things. I try and help others learn not, shun them for not knowing.

[dragonseth07]

I think its a lack of tolerance and understanding, I would hope that people runnin the same dungeons for a few years now would be alot better than players who hve been playing about 6 months. Ive seen so many vets leave and give up on new players Ive never seen a new player abandon

Granted, I am still new, but here's my experience:

New players don't abandon, but they rarely if ever fix their mistakes, either. This leads to repeated wipes, until old players get sick of no progress being made, so they abandon a lost cause party.

Of all the players I've met in duties, the ones who actually read chat and fixed their issues in a fight are nearly nonexistent. My clears have come from experienced players being able to carry the people that die the same way 5 times.

[bswpayton]

Granted, I am still new,

but see the thing is this go back and watch and old guide like on youtube , like an old extreme titan guide, or an extreme ifrit guide, and ull notice people sayin how hard how challenging how many times they had to come back and try again, how some beat it with minutes remaining. With how it is now new players arent given that chance I literally qued for thormarch extreme we died twice once i was the last person alive as a bard, u know what the duty group did left was litearlly 45 mins left, ur average dungeon takes like 15 to 30 mins depending on. So yes vets carry, but at the sametime like I said its no tolerance, Ive seen many new players adjust to do things better in my experience , I take heed to stuff Ive been told myself. Also if content is so easy then unsync wouldn't be a thing for pony farming and such , if it was that easy people would just get some friends together sync up and do it but they dont.

[dragonseth07]

snip

There's a difference. When the content was new and current, those groups trying and wiping were actually making progress. There was a purpose to the grind. My attempts at Levi EX yesterday? They were doomed from the start, because the people doing this content now aren't trying to improve. They're trying to get carried. No matter how many times you tell someone "The tail reflects magic damage", it only matters if that player will actually listen and work.

[Frowny]

I loved seeing WC groups wipe due to stupidity, but part of me wishes for more gates to keep those wanting carries out. Average is perfectly fine, but braindead shouldn't be rewarded.

[Dement]

I don't necessarily agree that the base game needs to be more difficult; however, I think they could solve this dispute by increasing the ways to effectively gain tomestones. The roulettes are pretty much the only feasible means to effectively cap out week after week which forces ALL players to run incredibly simple content that I frequently begin to despise within 2-3 weeks of patch release. However, I'm forced to run it day after day anyway because all other content drops such minute amounts of lore and scripture that it just isn't feasible to run challenging content to cap.

The "Casual" crowd frequently claims that things shouldn't be made more difficult because it would force them to play content that isn't designed for their skill level but they fail to realize that more skilled players are constantly forced to play content that is not commensurate to their skill level by forcing them to run snooze fest dungeons. I don't like to log into the game and be bored for the first 30 minutes to an hour and a half that I play depending on how many roulettes I have to complete to accomplish my current objectives.

If other forms of content received a boost to their tomestone drops bringing them up to a level that I could farm efficiently, I would happily stay in the content that my skill level best fits. At that point I wouldn't care one bit if dungeons were a simple outing that I only had to clear once. As it stands though, each Alexander Savage floor gives a whopping 30 scriptures. Less than half of one dungeon roulette and once you have your drops for the week, there is little incentive to go back and help others clear the floors for 30 scripture per floor and each floor could take a substantial amount of title depending on the group you go with.

[Khubla_Kha]

So, this design shift may be in part due to that. But, it's in large part due to demographic shifts. In school, we all had time for an evening of raiding and an hour of just prep work. As we grew up, that was no longer the case. Now, we're married, with kids and demanding careers.

Right, but there are new young people that have the amounts of free time we once did. It's not just us playing these games, there are new young gamers. Just as many people stop playing MMOs entirely due to time constraints from things like jobs, parenthood & other obligations as look to find MMO catered to their time restraints.

As you say this is part of the reason for the shift. It's also that the gaming world has evolved with the rest of the consumer based world where everything is far more disposable and consumed in smaller doses than they used to be. Average movies are now 65-80 minutes instead of 90-120. Single player games are now generally 8-12 hours instead of 20-40. FPS games now (for the most part) completely forego having single player campaign (yes this is a gross generalization) to focus on being online shooter arenas because that can be consumed more quickly while giving the same sense of accomplishment of getting something done. There are many reasons. I wasn't trying to encompass them all or make it seem like that was the only reason.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I have 4 toons. I keep them all at current content and reasonably geared. It's a lot of work. I know I'm crazy to do it but I do. I just don't want to have to deal with wipe fests when dealing with the tome grind. Now if they want harder content I'd support raid or extreme level difficulty dungeons like our extreme primals but please don't make those part of the normal tome grind we need to run daily.

This is a fallacy. No one is asking for extremely difficult dungeons. We're asking they not be completely mindless. I have literally been apart of a big pull in Xelphatol where the Scholar tanked it. As a tank, myself, if I pull small packs as the devs prefer, the healer can outright /sit because I'll never come remotely close to dying. If I play healer, I'll spend at least 50% of my time in Cleric Stance. Weeping City wasn't an immense challenge. It simply required you to use your brain and actually know how to play the game. How often do we all complain about people having no idea how to use a proper rotation? They don't know because there's absolutely nothing to incentivize them to learn one. What motivation do they have to learn when the content they do is so absurdly easy, they can press two buttons and clear it, no problem? No offense, but if you (generalizing) having a full time job makes it too difficult to actually have pay attention as a healer. That is not the game's fault.

[Frowny]

The "Casual" crowd frequently claims that things shouldn't be made more difficult because it would force them to play content that isn't designed for their skill level but they fail to realize that more skilled players are constantly forced to play content that is not commensurate to their skill level by forcing them to run snooze fest dungeons. I don't like to log into the game and be bored for the first 30 minutes to an hour and a half that I play depending on how many roulettes I have to complete to accomplish my current objectives.

To be frank, they can up difficultly without it being Savage level as even HM dungeons coddle players (take the two new ones where you can do a few massive pulls but healers can DPS most of the time). WC is the common example but probably the best: fairly easy, but there are STILL numerous problems because people still refuse to learn their class or basic mechanics. You don't need to push massive DPS, but having a basic understanding of your class shouldn't be met with "well, I play for fun only" etc. Difficulty is both by design and by what a player brings to the table.

[Dragon_Sanders]

U mean... the overall difficulty is too easy?
That's different to what I see.

More challenge is welcomed everywhere, but is it necessary to make people feel rough with a GAME because they don't "play hard"?
Please, some people play MMO just because they are too tired from work. A tired person, wants to get fun, is asked to pay full attention and effort...OMG.
To make the point clear: let the non-hardcore relax; let the hardcore gain more.
As far as ffxiv is concerned, people indeed quarrel too much in parties. For a long term I can't find another MMO stressful like that. "Bad players" usually means people impolite, disrespectful, breaking the rules; while in ffxiv, we'll probably add one: "careless playing"！
I know most MMO have something troublesome. But if one game troubles more, is it the players' fault?
I know players in a party should at least be responsible to others. But if the mechanics make them easily get exhausted, should they be blamed that seriously?