Role Skills a Mistake?

[Gravton]

First off, I am not against having a new system in place for cross-class skills. I think locking them into role specific is a mistake.

I think that they should just give jobs the cross-class skills that SE wants that job to have. For example right now pld has stoneskin, I'm guessing stoneskin would be in the healer role and if they wanted pld to have stoneskin they would have to write in an exception.

If they just assign all the skills they want a job to have then it would be easier to maintain. They would never be faced with a situation like "raging strikes is required on this job, but its to overpowered on that job, do we remove it from that role category?" Like when thunder was a cross-class for smn. Another job could have really benefited from it but it was to overpowered for smn to have, so they just replaced it for all jobs.

If they just assigned the skills it would also be easier to scale with future expansions. I think this way would make it a lot easier on the devs to implement, and be easier to modify with future jobs.

[magnanimousCynic]

Unless some new leaks happened that I don't know of, we have next-to-no knowledge on the new system besides it being split into roles.

It's far too early to speculate on something we know almost nothing about.

[Lambdafish]

While I completely agree with you on stoneskin (and protect - yes I use it in raid sometimes), mananimous is right. We do not have enough information to complain about this yet.

Having said that, I am worried too. PLD is the only job in the game where part of its cross class is completely different to other jobs in its role (all melee dps get DRG, all healers get BLM etc.), and I don't want PLD to suffer from the role system for other jobs benefit. PLD makes up the most important tank cross class skills, so it doesn't gain much from the role system, and losing WHM skills so that other jobs can get PLD skills for 'free' would be a bit of a kick in the teeth (another one).

But anyway, it's too early to speculate, lets just wait and see what happens.

[VanilleFang]

We don't know if there will be any overlap at this point in time.

For example: SMN, SCH, AST, WHM, and BLM all use Swiftcast. Two are DPS, three are healers. It would be safe to assume that it will be an option for all of them, possibly under "DoM Skills". But we have no idea at this point.

PLD could still have access to healer skills.

[Reynhart]

But anyway, it's too early to speculate, lets just wait and see what happens.

Well, if they put Provoke and Convalescence in the "role skill pool", we might get two new skills to replace them...I guess...
But since they're Gladiator skills, they could be replaced by two new Gladiator skills, so probably not something very Conjurer-y.

[Zojha]

PLD makes up the most important tank cross class skills, so it doesn't gain much from the role system, [...]

Up for speculation. It could well be that PLD actually comes out ahead in this, because where other tanks have to leave desirable skills on the floor due to essential skills like taunt taking up precious slots, PLD can pick more of the "good stuff" since they already have those skills innately. Depends entirely on the execution of the system.

[Reynhart]

PLD can pick more of the "good stuff" since they already have those skills innately. Depends entirely on the execution of the system.

How I understand that system is those skills will not be innate PLD anymore, they'll be in a pool, with skills either available right from the start (But in a limited number depending on your level), or learn by every tank at the same level.

However, if they go as far as to make a special pool where you have to chose your additionnal skills, maybe we'll see more interesting choices. If it's only to make Provoke available, why not simply giving it as a native skill for all tanks with different names ? After all, every healer already has its variation of Raise or Esuna.

[Zojha]

How I understand that system is those skills will not be innate PLD anymore, they'll be in a pool, with skills either available right from the start (But in a limited number depending on your level), or learn by every tank at the same level.

That's why speculation isn't very fruitful - we have no idea how the system will end up working. It's a possibility that these skills are just taken from the job and put into a pool. It's just as possible they aren't.

If you take these skills from the job however, that also means the traits that improve those skills will have to be scrapped as well, because it's no longer a given that the jobs will have that skill. Many cross-class skills have a trait associated with them to make sure the original job version is better than the crossed one. Moreover, other jobs get abilities at that level as well, so for parity sake, you'd "have" to take some of their skills as well, whether it makes sense or not - or, make new abilities for the job.

It seems a lot harder to work with. But who knows?

[Reynhart]

Many cross-class skills have a trait associated with them to make sure the original job version is better than the crossed one.

Like they did with Protect and Stoneskin in 3.0.

Moreover, other jobs get abilities at that level as well, so for parity sake, you'd "have" to take some of their skills as well, whether it makes sense or not - or, make new abilities for the job.

That's why I said PLD might get a good deal there, depending on what skills are considered mandatory. If you remove Provoke and Convalescence, Gladiator could learn brand new skills at level 10 and 22. Likewise for MRD level 2 and Foresight. DRK, on the other hand, could gain nothing new...

But yes, we lack a lof of information on that...

EDIT : I've found this interview. That might bring a new light on this.

F: What about tanks?

Y: The current three tank jobs will share the same abilities. By introducing defense abilities such as physical damage resistance 20% up into role shared abilities, in their stead, we can create new unique abilities for jobs.

If that's the case, then maybe Rampart and Shadowskin (And...whatever corresponding skill you want to chose for WAR) could disappear from their respective job, and indeed being replaced by new and more unique skills.

[Alistaire]

We don't know if there will be any overlap at this point in time.

For example: SMN, SCH, AST, WHM, and BLM all use Swiftcast. Two are DPS, three are healers. It would be safe to assume that it will be an option for all of them, possibly under "DoM Skills". But we have no idea at this point.

PLD could still have access to healer skills.

And the funny thing is the dps would be the least affected by losing it. They'd be affected of course, but healers would get downright crippled by losing it. Maybe the dps will lose it, maybe they'll just make equivalent skills, like how both skull sunder and savage blade are crossclass (and yeah, they're both worthless as such but the point is they're identical). So blm/smn get swiftcast, and healers get a new skill added in called "fastcast" (or whatever).