Thread: 3.5/4.0 Speculation & Discussion (Spoilers)

A lot of people sympathise with Garlemald because Garlemald is interesting and far more morally complicated than many assume. Yes, there's rotten elements that will need to be dealt with but Garlemald as a whole is very unlikely to be without redeeming qualities. Final Fantasy games in particular have a long history of creating antagonists that many people either sympathise with or come to respect for other reasons.

Thankfully the lore book outright confirms that there's shades of grey to Garlemald - and it's certainly not incompetent either. It has accomplished much - with Eorzea being one of the few real thorns in its side so far and even then that's largely due to major plot points such as Midgardsormr intervening in their plans as well as a hero blessed by Hydaelyn herself. Then there's Ascian manipulation too, of course, but then that's something that has plagued Eorzea too.

FFXIV is a setting that doesn't shy away from touching upon dark and upsetting themes. It's also not a theme limited to Garlemald given that similar scenarios play out in Limsa and Ishgard assuming I am not misremembering. Chances are we'll be eliminating the rotten/misguided elements of Garlemald in the same way as we did with Ishgard.

Originally Posted by Theodric

FFXIV is a setting that doesn't shy away from touching upon dark and upsetting themes. It's also not a theme limited to Garlemald given that similar scenarios play out in Limsa and Ishgard assuming I am not misremembering. Chances are we'll be eliminating the rotten/misguided elements of Garlemald in the same way as we did with Ishgard.

For that i am quite glad the story lines in FFXIV have ever been it's strongest merit. The fact so many adult themes are brought up in the Dark Knight story line quest made it one of if not my favorite so far.


However while it is seen that that there are those in all the city states that deal in human trafficking/ slavery (ARC, ROG, class guest line, AST job quest line, general Ul'Dah practice of hiring the desperate for near indentured slavery, among other things, Ishgard abysmal treatment of the lower class, ect...) the idea that this was a kind of "procedure" taken by "Rights of the Victor" (as Glaumunt states he was "made to do hard labor due to his youth, while his sister and mother were made to do far worse") makes it to my mind set that much worse.

In the links i provided before the Quest "Of Men they Sing" and "Future Perfect" we are even treated to indoctrination of children.

With so many in this day and age trying to make "complex, multifaceted, villains" is it so hard to believe an evil Magellanic capable of killing his own family is tyrannically ruling over a nation of zealots in love with their own technology based superiority? History says no. While some outliers will surely exist the vast majority seem happy to crush everyone and everything under foot (going by sheer number of Garlean troops seen in ARR trailer)

Not saying Garlemald can't be the next "Fire Nation", at this point something cut and dry would be more welcome than a nation of "misunderstood/ misguided", technology advanced Empire.

On a side note, though we will obviously not see eye on this subject, it's heartening to see others enjoy the lore of this game as passionately as myself.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Much of the dislike their bear for 'lesser races' is no doubt spawned from enduring centuries of persecution as a people.

It's actually kinda ironic, if you think about it. One would think they would make it their job to protect all "lesser" races, if they were in a fairly similar situation at some point, to make sure such a terrible thing would never happen to anyone again. Instead, they employ the same mentality as their old foes - An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind. Either that, or they have a deep rooted fear that one of them might end up repeating their own history and rise against them.

Ah well! I'm pretty sure Garlemands internal situation will be dealt with similarly to Isghard. We get rid of the emperor and whatnot, put a new leader on top to deal with the aftermath, make peace with the Alliance and the beast tribes to boot for good measure, then go and search us a new enemy to threaten our ever growing collective power.

Originally Posted by Theodric

Mm. Garlemald is a very much of a product of how it was treated in the past. Their rise to immense power is in itself a fairly recent affair but the lorebook confirms that they've been treated like dirt for centuries - forced to move from fertile, warm lands into a wasteland where every day was a struggle for survival. Enduring attack after attack led them to resort to whatever means were needed to survive and prosper - and whilst that doesn't exactly excuse their behaviour in the present day at the same time it sort of...does if you look at it from their perspective.

Incidentally this makes me wonder how innocent Garlemald's neighbours actually are - and whether this includes Ala Mhigo. I'd also be very curious to learn who, exactly, lives in the region that the Garleans were driven out from and if they descend from the same people(s) responsible. If so, what are their views? Are they remorseful? Did they attempt to co-operate in recent years or did they remain defiant and look down upon the Garleans right up until they began to conquer neighbouring lands?

I think that whilst Garlemald's darker elements need to be eliminated there also needs to be some sort of compromise that allows the Garleans themselves to benefit - be it through favourable tribe or being allowed to move freely through other lands without discrimination. Much of the dislike their bear for 'lesser races' is no doubt spawned from enduring centuries of persecution as a people.

Hopefully at least some of these scenarios will be addressed in 4.0 and beyond - which seems likely if they do indeed intend to explore 'shades of grey' as promised.

I wouldn't say it justifies it but it does explain it. That doesn't make it ok. Nidhogg's reason for war against Ishgard had a reason behind it which was one you could sympathise with but it didn't make the war ok.

As for the people who drove Garleans north, I would say they have been well and truly conquered by this point. They were probably one of the first groups for Garlemald to conquer. I doubt the Garleans have any direct connection to Ala Mhigo any more than they do to Doma. Garlemald has long since surpassed the areas it might have historically had some connection to.

The reality though is Garlemald over all is at a point where if it collapse it would throw most of the world into war and chaos and that's not a good outcome. That said some serious changes in policy would probably go along way to making them more workable.