Paladin Suggestion!

[Dzian]

I have an either simpler idea: give Flash a damage component.

Something I suggested a long time ago is simply swap the oaths

Level 30 unlock shield oath
Level 40 unlock sword oath

Problem solved.

[Eloah]

Something I suggested a long time ago is simply swap the oaths

Level 30 unlock shield oath
Level 40 unlock sword oath

Problem solved.

I wouldn't look so much at making adjustments to "story related job/class skills" since that might be more of an undertaking to adjust than we think, cutscenes dialogue, etc. But anything that happens whe you level nodmally might be shuffled for convenience.

[Vamelo]

This is a failing in having too many classes trying to do the same function. They have to spread the abilities out so they can say, "Well X can tank like this, but not like this. However, Y can tank like THIS but....not like this...." You always wind up with a tank that's short of one thing, and heavy in something else. Small wonder what's being called for is a Warrior skill. Do this enough and we'll be like...why have the warrior? Why not have an axe-wielding (two-handed weapon), or a sword and board Paladin?

Not the first game to give the kiddies too much for Christmas. Won't be the last.

[Daniolaut]

All three AoE hate generating skills have the same hate potency.

low level PLD holds hate better and more efficiently than WAR with OP.

Everyone who makes these statements never take into consideration that....

WAR and DRK use *damage* in their threat generation.

PLD uses a pointless spell.

How WAR can boost their *damage* thus gain more threat:
Berserk lv.22
Maim lv.18

Plus Defiance at level 30, which directly increases enmity, as well as:
Unchained lv. 40
....negating the penalty from defiance damage loss.
Single target attacks to gain threat from damage which is enhanced by maim and berserk:
Brutal Swing Lv. 10

How DRK can boost their *damage* thus gain more threat:
Dark Side lv. 30

Plus Grit at level 30, which directly increases enmity, as well as:
Single target attacks to gain threat from damage which is enhanced by Dark Side:
Low Blow lv. 10
Reprisal lv. 22
Dark Passenger lv. 40
Dark Arts to enhance multiple attacks lv. 45

PLD?

Flash lv. 8
Shield Swipe lv. 30
(Enhanced by Flight or Flight lv. 6)

No way to boost flash at all whatsoever ...

until level 40 with shield oath.



Recap:
WAR
Brutal Swing lv. 10
Maim lv. 18
Berserk lv 22
Defiance lv. 30
Unchained lv 40

DRK
Low Blow lv. 10
Reprisal lv. 22
Dark Side lv 30
Grit lv. 30
Dark Passenger lv. 40
Dark Arts lv. 45

PLD
Shield Swipe lv. 30 (FoF lv. 6)
Shield Oath lv. 40



"But paladin flash has the same threat potency generation as overpower and unleash."

Doesnt mean anything when it cant be enchanced until 10 levels after the other two tanks, and is 2 or more ways of enhancing it short of the other two tanks....



Paladin is the only melee fighter in the game with less than 2 combos at level 50, and no area of effect weaponskill at all. (Circle of scorn is not a weaponskill.)

[Fluffernuff]

Everyone who makes these statements never take into consideration that....

WAR and DRK use *damage* in their threat generation.

PLD uses a pointless spell.

...

If you're going to quote me in such a way to "correct" me on a point, at least follow through in the same post or later points. I've already "taken into consideration" what you're saying here.

Also, I said that flash is more EFFICIENT AT LOW LEVELS than Overpower. You're trying to correct me on how flash has less effective emnity (which I already brought up). However, YOU'RE not accounting for how many flashes a paladin can use compared to how many times WAR can use OP. using flash 6 times is more emnity than using boosted OP 3 times (3600 vs 3060). WAR has severe TP issues until they get equilibrium at...what? 56? 58? Meanwhile a PLD has riot blade to grant them more Flashes. Drk further has more efficiency because blood weapon and syphon strike stack AND they get blood price.

The only argument here at this point is the fact that said 6 flashes did 0 damage while the WAR did more AoE damage. Yes. PLD is lacking AoE damage... heck, damage in general. beat the dead horse. However, since Flash is their only AoE option, it's what theyre going to use regardless. Flash is less emnity per use, but is able to be used much more often. that's why Flash keeps up.

[Daniolaut]

If you're going to quote me in such a way to "correct" me on a point, at least follow through in the same post or later points. I've already "taken into consideration" what you're saying here.

Also, I said that flash is more EFFICIENT AT LOW LEVELS than Overpower. You're trying to correct me on how flash has less effective emnity (which I already brought up). However, YOU'RE not accounting for how many flashes a paladin can use compared to how many times WAR can use OP. using flash 6 times is more emnity than using boosted OP 3 times (3600 vs 3060). WAR has severe TP issues until they get equilibrium at...what? 56? 58? Meanwhile a PLD has riot blade to grant them more Flashes. Drk further has more efficiency because blood weapon and syphon strike stack AND they get blood price.

The only argument here at this point is the fact that said 6 flashes did 0 damage while the WAR did more AoE damage. Yes. PLD is lacking AoE damage... heck, damage in general. beat the dead horse. However, since Flash is their only AoE option, it's what theyre going to use regardless. Flash is less emnity per use, but is able to be used much more often. that's why Flash keeps up.

Not trying to correct you.

I just dont see the point in saying flash has the same potency threat generation as overpower and unleash. Its not applicable in any situation. Youre not "tanking" things at level 8.

Also i'm not sure when enemies are alive long enough to completely run out of TP on WAR or DRK that you cant have enough threat to start single targeting to conserve said tp.

Personally, i feel DRK is the best at holding threat at any level while doing damage to help defeat the enemies that are attacking you. Which defeating an enemy is the best defense, seeing as the faster they die, the less amount of time they can hit you.

Which makes the PLD has a shield argument a little silly in my opinion. (Cause if a WAR or DRK can main tank it, why take a paladin?)

All i was trying to do was point out PLD cannot enhance flash.

[LineageRazor]

To be honest, I think it's a GOOD idea to put stress on low level tanks. It allows them to practice building enmity while NOT seriously punishing them for failure (since the mobs are so very weak). Losing hate at low levels is a bit embarrassing, but rarely a wipe.

A Paladin that learns good hate management BEFORE Shield Oath is going to be an enmity monster once they get it.

[Kosmos992k]

To be honest, I think it's a GOOD idea to put stress on low level tanks. It allows them to practice building enmity while NOT seriously punishing them for failure (since the mobs are so very weak). Losing hate at low levels is a bit embarrassing, but rarely a wipe.

A Paladin that learns good hate management BEFORE Shield Oath is going to be an enmity monster once they get it.

Agreed. It teaches better situational awareness. But the main methods are weaving in provokes and shield lobs as needed, rotating targets and paying attention to what the rest of the party is doing and who they are attacking. I actually find it more enjoyable to be doing all of that because it actually feels like I'm doing something. If you can grab hate and maintain it with ease, where is the challenge? I like the challenge.

[Kyuuen]

I don't have too many threat issues as Paladin from what I've play so far.

However I have to ask, how do people feel with Shield Bash being part of the GCD? Personally I find it annoying as I usually have used some other ability just before a mob starts casting something that can be interrupted or stunned out of.

[Fluffernuff]

I don't have too many threat issues as Paladin from what I've play so far.

However I have to ask, how do people feel with Shield Bash being part of the GCD? Personally I find it annoying as I usually have used some other ability just before a mob starts casting something that can be interrupted or stunned out of.

having it on the GCD means you cant stun on-demand. However it means you can stun multiple times in a row, multiple problem targets, and is always up to be used, even if you have to hold your GCD to use it. sometimes the stun is more important than damage. I find it to be the best stun of the 3..... as a stun. not being oGCD means they can't really use it as a DPS tool. oh well.