Elephant in the room - action changes from the lore standpoint

[Isaveron]

The community bitched about classic FF jobs because the classes in their current state (even now) have ZERO personality, lore or not.

The community does nothing but moan and whine. And zero personality? And you think generic jobs will somehow be better than what we have now, or that this somehow "fixes the game"? I'm getting tired of people like you constantly trying to turn this game into XI-2 (then lying, claiming they aren't), if I want to play XI I'll go play XI.

[Alcide]

Just like the rest of the game, the lore is being reworked too. Again Yoshida's vision seems to clash with Tanaka's, so Tanaka's ideas and whatnot are getting the axe. The game is changing drastically, this is no different. With 2.0 I imagine everything will make sense together.

For new players they won't know that the lore has been changed and it'll all make perfect sense to them. Again these changes only seem bad to us because we've been exposed to the old, changing lore already.

Ok, we get that the game is changing drastically, but since the classes are changing drastically too and in the new concept there's absolutely nothing of the original CNJ and THM basically if the changings were swapped it wouldn't have made any difference from a development point of view, right? I mean, there isn't a single ability left untouched... tho if the changes were swapped it would have made much more sense from a lore point of view, resulting in less changes to lore and quests hence less work for the devs. Even if the game is changing drastically we should expect a bit of common sense in these changes. It feels like when they chosed wich class got WHM or BLM they just flipped a coin.

Also, as I've already stated, the battle system needs to be changed, the graphic engine needs to be changed, the class system needs to be changed, but the lore? That's the only thing that could be left untouched no matter how 2.0 will be different from the original game and that's what defines FFXIV above all; if it's gonna change drastically too I fail to see why they didn't just shut down the project and started a new mmo from scratches. I get that the main reason is the title, but when everything is changing the only thing that keeps the new game tied to the FFXIV title is the lore.

[Griss]

It wouldn't be much for them to retcon some of the lore. Hell they could even have fun with it. Perhaps some npc's saying hey wait a second, this isn't how things use to be. Perhaps even a little side quest involving a npc concocting a bit of a conspiracy theory about all of the changes.

the source of these changes? the handy catch all they have invented with the coming of the 7th umbral era.

[Razor]

The community bitches about everything, I have no idea how we haven't ended up with a Bunny Mage that turns into demon spawn and shoots fire out of its ass all while crafting jam and biscuits into lamp guns during swimming lessons.

You have my vote for most amazing class idea of 2011! One question though, wouldnt the crafting minigame interrupt the immersion of battle? :P

[KaiKatzchen]

They don't make much sense.

I'd like to hear a confirmation of one kind or another as to whether the dev team has taken the "gameplay > lore" standpoint in which the lore will not be altered but the classes aren't going to fit said lore at all, or if they are going to alter the existing lore to make the new actions fit to it.

I would not be surprised if they rewrote the lore in some aspect, and it looks like in some aspects they already have. SE did say that we (those who are playing now) are the only ones who would play with this lore/story line until 2.0 came out, at that time the new age would come and the whole world and story would change.

They might use that as an excuse, new story line & world = we had to change as well and the classes/job took on different forms, thus new lore for the classes.

I'm fine with it as long as it makes sense in the new world.

[JTSpender]

I don't even necessarily need the lore to be in the game instantaneously. I know they're optimizing for mechanical stuff right now. I'd just like a brief write-up of what the new lore is going to be.

[Kailok]

The community does nothing but moan and whine. And zero personality? And you think generic jobs will somehow be better than what we have now, or that this somehow "fixes the game"? I'm getting tired of people like you constantly trying to turn this game into XI-2 (then lying, claiming they aren't), if I want to play XI I'll go play XI.

Considering I quit XI a few years ago and want nothing to do with XI, I'd say I damn well don't want XIV turning into XI-2. But what does that have anything to do with wanting personality in classes in this game? Nothing. And just because they've been used before doesn't mean it's generic if Yoshida's team can find a way to give them their own personality in this game. Which is also a reason why Lore is important.

And yes, I think it will do better. But, I also think anything can do better than the lifeless classes that Tanaka gave us. You honestly think Gladiator isn't generic? Or Pugilist? Really? All they did was take those classic classes/jobs and stick a different name on them hoping people would go: "OMG, DIFFERENT NAME. SO ORIGINAL *O*" No. They were shitty lifeless versions of jobs from earlier on in the series. The only difference is the original team got stuck because they wanted you to pull abilities and traits from everything else so they ended up building classes around other classes around OTHER classes. Why do you think Marauder ended up being another tank? Because they wanted Gladiator to have to level it up and work around it. I don't know about you, but I don't remember Pirates being the type to keep the attention of monsters and protect others. If I remember correctly, Pirates are supposed to be cut-throats who are in it for themselves. They aren't "protectors".

If THM and CON and MRD and everything else actually FELT like what they were supposed to be, and built for their own class instead of moving around other ones, nobody would be complaining. Sure, the names were weird at first, but I got used to it quickly enough. The problem I have is that my Marauder, that's supposed to be a pirate with all it's "pirate-lore", acts/looks NOTHING like a pirate. I also hate that my Gladiator had to level 4-5 different classes, and if I didn't I was considered "less than optimal".

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer my class excel at doing it's own damn job and THEN pulling abilities from other classes in order to mix my play experience around a bit. But no, Tanaka built the game so that you needed to level 4 other classes in order to do your own job, and if you didn't, people wouldn't bother with you. All that does is battle AGAINST Class Identity and you know it.

[Maxwell]

I always felt the lore to be rather shallow and generic. No firm and deep positions on anything about the world except that limsa is a city of pirates, ul'dah a city a greedy ass holes and grid a city of hippies :P I'd rather have the devs focus on functionality and convenient features rather than consistency and "fake realism". Until 2.0 at least.

[Neptune]

They don't make much sense.

I'd like to hear a confirmation of one kind or another as to whether the dev team has taken the "gameplay > lore" standpoint in which the lore will not be altered but the classes aren't going to fit said lore at all, or if they are going to alter the existing lore to make the new actions fit to it.

I can't believe my eyes. YOU have an objection to something the dev team did? I'm shocked. Anyway, I too would like them to say "we don't care what the lore was because this game is so broken" so that I might let go of any hope they will revise their part brilliant part crazed class actions purge.

[Betelgeuzah]

I can't believe my eyes. YOU have an objection to something the dev team did? I'm shocked. Anyway, I too would like them to say "we don't care what the lore was because this game is so broken" so that I might let go of any hope they will revise their part brilliant part crazed class actions purge.

I find it hilarious how you try to make me into a one-dimensional NPC of a JRPG, perhaps as a way to justify your own faulty logic most of the time. I'm not Jennestia as much as you'd desperately hope I was.

Anyway, CNJ(Elementalist in French version btw) will have access to Water, Earth, and Wind element. THM(BLM, the "master of six elements") will have access to Fire, Lightning, Ice. The lore is being hit repeatedly from all directions.