Liquid Flame is an example of how overly easy things are.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I disagree. I see it more as the fact healers are too overpowered in their own primary function. But, we'll agree to disagree.

On AST, I can pop synastry, pop my regens, time extend it all on tank and never heal again. Ever.

On SCH, I simply DPS 24/7.

On WHM, I occasionally pop a regen up and go back to dps.

Yeah, I'd say there's something up with how powerful healers are in late game dungeons. SCH and AST in particular.

[ErryK]

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The difficulty in Savage is managing good damage, overcoming the healing requirements, and successfully defending against tankbusters and the like, while also dealing with mechanics that affect those previous requirements. Expert also does this, except, the outgoing damage is of a lower frequency because, guess what? Savage is tuned to i240+, while Expert is tuned to i210+. Forget the fact that it is 30 item levels below what we're at at the moment, but that it was the best gear available four patches ago. Attempting to "antagonize" the lack of difficulty in expert is like attempting to antagonize enrage timers in raids. They are there for specific reasons and they are there so everyone is at the exact same point of opportunity to progress.

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There is a level difficulty, but at the point you are at, you have already experienced 60 levels of that class, so are you really going to expect an instant-wipe? This is just excusing having an easier time because of experience just so more 'dire' mechanics are added. There isn't a reason to though? So why are complaints coming in that the endgame dungeons that are meant to allow new, somewhat/partially inexperienced players to easily gear up, being too easy? That's right, because that covers more of the majority. Believe it or not, people who want EX roulette to be more difficult/more unforgiving are a minority.

[Ceasaria]

This game needs more Chariberts.

And more Living Liquid.

[Miste]

I disagree. I see it more as the fact healers are too overpowered in their own primary function. But, we'll agree to disagree.

Yeah, I'd say there's something up with how powerful healers are in late game dungeons. SCH and AST in particular.

You can't really single out healers being the only ones "overpowered" in your opinion because tanks are also a factor (which you are somehow ignoring their part in it). In each encounter it is how much the healer heals versus how much damage the tank takes that makes up the unity of how long and how much a healer can DPS while the tank is tanking.

These dungeons are not tuned to be difficult. They are meant for any type of player to be able to complete and they tune them to lower than average item levels.

The newest Experts as of this post Xelphatol and Great Googly Moogly Hard are entry level i210.......i210? That is the best item level from the start of 3.0...The first Alexander raid (Gordias) dropped i210 gear; that's how long ago that item level was the best.

This is why you feel healers are overpowered...except that is just it, they aren't. Most healers and tanks are just way over geared for these dungeons because SE wants players to be able to catch up even if they did not play recently. They obviously want dungeons to be inclusive and try not to exclude too many players from accessing it. If you kept up with your gear from the previous content patch you would be i240 when they released these two new experts so you are already 30 item levels above the minimum that the dungeon is tuned for and the fact they generally don't seem to want to make dungeons too hard; again that is because they don't want to exclude players. They want it to be easily accessible and easily complete-able content.

So you aren't really overpowered you are just over geared and the dungeons are supposed to be easy level content.

I wish there was more difficulty but I understand why there isn't, but I get my difficulty fix from doing the savage raids. What would be cool is if they added some savage dungeons that we could tackle. PotD 150-200 was a good addition so far for difficult 4 man content.

[Felis]

If the player is too strong, then the bosses need more 1-shot mechanics (like the Meteor from Behemoth)

[ckc22]

If the player is too strong, then the bosses need more 1-shot mechanics (like the Meteor from Behemoth)

Wipe or win is bad for new players and bad for getting people to take them to things.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

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No one is expecting nor asking dungeons become the equivalent of Savage. We want them to not be brain dead easy. I can literally spam nothing but Impulse Drive and we'll still clear within twenty minutes. I flat out ignore the push back mechanic from the second boss in Xelaphtol. Why? It does negligible damage I can heal myself through, on Dragoon. The fact we're already pushing passed the majority of their "gimmicks" speaks to how absurdly easy "expert" dungeons are. Hell, Yoshi hilariously warned tanks to be careful. What happened on day one? Pull the entire room and aoe them all down. I'm far from an experienced tank and short of getting no heals whatsoever, I can pop one or two cooldowns, spam Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain and none of them will come close to killing me. The only pull that actually poses any challenge is if you try and grab everything before the Apanda fight in Gubal. That can be a little taxing on healers. Everything else; bosses included? Dead within two minutes.

So excuse your strawman. I'd prefer doing more than spam Heavy Thrust + Ring of Thorn + Doom Spike x3-5. There's a reason queue times for Expert have become increasingly longer. The devs didn't put the new Anima step on there without reason. People aren't doing dungeons because they're boring.

[Kaitoo]

Wipe or win is bad for new players and bad for getting people to take them to things.

Actually no, its exactly the opposite, recently a raid designer from the wow team write about this in his blog i think and compare it to ff xiv and is also often talked in game design pannels. Its also pretty obvious

If you have mechanics all over your game which can be ignored/marginalized, that teaches the player A) That its not dangerous/they dont fear it b) they are educated to not take this mechanic seriously. If its kills you instant, you get punished and dont want it experince it again.


If a new player goes 99 % of the game (and we talking about level 60 content here) with that game design the new players position is extremly poor if they tackle any content that is beyond this difficulty

[ErryK]

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I would love to see a Dragoon PURELY spamming Impulse Drive as their only damage in an Expert roulette dungeon and still clear in 20 minutes, in the average DF group. It's unlikely, and I get that you're being hyperbolic to prove your point, except, that works against your favor. If a person expects a high level of difficulty in content that is supposed to encompass skill levels of all players in the game, then you need to lower your expectations, sweetheart, because Expert is primarily there to allow people to cap tomestones in a relatively short amount of time (20 min x 5 days is enough to cap 450 tomes). If it's difficulty you want, EX Primals, Savage and PotD 101+ are there and not going anywhere.

[Kaurie]

Go do Savage and stop complaining about "Expert" roulette.

Yeah, everyone knows expert dungeons are not here to be fun! They are simply chores to do while watching Netflix.

Content is only supposed to be engaging and interesting in Savage raids. It is known.

I would love to see a Dragoon PURELY spamming Impulse Drive as their only damage in an Expert roulette dungeon and still clear in 20 minutes, in the average DF group. It's unlikely, and I get that you're being hyperbolic to prove your point, except, that works against your favor. If a person expects a high level of difficulty in content that is supposed to encompass skill levels of all players in the game, then you need to lower your expectations, sweetheart, because Expert is primarily there to allow people to cap tomestones in a relatively short amount of time (20 min x 5 days is enough to cap 450 tomes). If it's difficulty you want, EX Primals, Savage and PotD 101+ are there and not going anywhere.

This depends on their co-damage partner. I am fairly certain me DPSing solo with the healer/tank doing their part would clear in 20 minutes (as the usual run takes ~13-14 minutes). Then again you said average DF group.

There is a difference between wanting difficulty, and wanting content to be engaging and require effort. Experts currently barely require DPS to do rotations, tanks to hold agro nor healers to heal. I tank half the mobs in half my runs and I never drop below 50% of my HP. When I go on my SCH, I literally do not cast heals on spam pulls (Faerie does it 100%). It's absurdly easy to the point that it isn't fun. It's not that we want 'hard' content, we just want something to play.