The Journey - Is It Still Wanted?

[Sarchy_Warchy]

. . . Don't forget, XI was pretty mediocre in its first two years. . . and didn't have all that diversity. Give the devs time. By 2013 maybe things will be different.

[weeble]

i love my grinds in ffxi, i loves the journey but some of the stories on the journey are a little extreme. mostly the one where they are killing so slow that people need to tell them to shut up and kill mobs lmao. his post was a +1 till that part. in ffxi i enjoyed the grind, i loved how every group was always a full new group of players ..loved that every grind in that game never really felt the same. liked convo's but speed was still always a factor, just cause you like it long and hard, don't mean you really need to literally slow down. even in this game i'll leave a group that is just talking to much too. if your talking and the mobs die b4 you hit them one or 2 times then lol ...that is called pl'ing too. and speed and accuracy to the top is just as important as the grind to some. i'd be the opposite and probably replace people like this pretty fast in ffxi. but again i still love the grind, maybe people like this are more for a vent group so you can do both correctly. either way i pray SE fixes the pl'ing problems and the speed to endgame. i'm not here to log in twice a week at the high populated hours of the day to do a few runs and log out. if i have no want for leveling new classes or farming things or repeating endgame for more then one class then this game will fall to the waist side like most mmo's do. the small population they end up with might be enough for some mmo's but i doubt for se. pretty sure they like shutting down or selling there failed mmo's.

[Birry]

i myself loved the grind to get all my jobs to r50 sneaking across the landscape to scout and find new mobs to kill or just farm on. Im glad i never experience this new ranking system because all i see in towns is ppl shouting for are PL parties. It doesnt take skill to get PLed and it just makes for a person that has no clue how to fully play a job and msot cant even pull their own weight in content like Ifrit or even in the darkhold. The new system we have now just reminds me of the SMN burn ots everyone killed to get into but ours is on some crack

Thats one reason i hope they add some new classes to play.

[Charismatic]

. . . Don't forget, XI was pretty mediocre in its first two years. . . and didn't have all that diversity. Give the devs time. By 2013 maybe things will be different.

Yeah, actually it did.
Everything mentioned in the OP was definitely stuff you could do within the first 2 years... hell, most of it within the first.

You clearly did not play FFXI in the first 2 years, and when I say first two I'm talking Japanese release even. First 2 years of FFXI for us NA players had even more diverse content because CoP had come out and been fleshed out a good ways within our first two years.

[Bowen]

. . . Don't forget, XI was pretty mediocre in its first two years. . . and didn't have all that diversity. Give the devs time. By 2013 maybe things will be different.

Isn't the world supposed to end in 2012. Omg. . .
T>T

[Dreamer]

I care about the journey, but NOT the grind. They are in no way the same thing to me. You can make an experience with longevity that isn't a grind: for example, just look at any game outside the MMO genre.

[Ruinaru]

One of the best feelings in XI for me was settling down into a nice long grind session as THF, and whipping my party into a proper rhythm as far as first-voke, SATA, etc went. It's so great when everyone clicks into position and the exp rolls in because everyone is doing everything right, rather than exp rolling in because everyone is gangbanging the monster like it's some crazy whack-a-mole machine.

The worst part of the grind in XI was finding a party. Especially for me, taking THF to cap first. But I could lose sleep over a good party in FFXI, once I actually got one. Levelling in XIV puts me to sleep. I think parties should become optimal earlier than they do, fights should last longer, and more emphasis should be placed on strategy while levelling in order to increase exp/hr, rather than hurling DDs at the mob or getting PL'd.

That, in addition to more early and mid level content would really help the game in my opinion. It took me well over a year to reach cap on my first job in FFXI because there was so much to do on the way up. Nations missions, Zilart missions, Promathia missions, job quests, BCNMs... The list goes on. I started right around the release of CoP and didn't get to 75 till after ToAU. And I loved that journey. I became attached to my character because it was a massive undertaking to sculpt it into what I wanted it to be.

I like the direction this game is headed for the most part. We just need more dang content on the way to the cap.

[Hanemakikaze]

Oh yes...the journey of xi.....seeking for freaking hours hoping for a pt, needing to be semi wealthy to not complete suck as a dd because you miss so much or getting a jp pt because those were always 110% awesome. Nah, don't miss it very much trying to get a group together that didn't suck was tough, and praying you get an invite was also retarded. Sure it's changed drastically now but back in the day that game nowhere near rainbows and sunshine, I still regret wasting so much time on that game. Don't get me wrong though, it was very fun at times and all and i still talk to my endgame ls even after 3 years of quitting but I would never, ever repeat those 5 years.

[RemnantWolf]

I feel there is so much that people have forgotten about the journey in recent years. The fact is that what many are calling "Grind" had so much purpose in past games, if it didn't feel like there was a purpose then people wouldn't have played at all. Here are some of the key points I remember from XI (and I may toss in some Skyrim, Megaman X and others while I'm at it).

A sense of accomplishment-

A lot of people argue that accomplishment shouldn't come from time spent playing the game, and honestly, I kinda agree. But the grind does add something to that. It separates players... now before you start telling me that's a problem, let me explain why I see it as a strength for an MMO.

When I started playing FFXI I had been invited by a friend. He not only taught me how to use the interface, macros and auction house (ah the life lessons of crystals +auction house = gil) but he showed me who I could be. He very early on took me around and showed me some areas (not many places I couldn't reach on my own, he felt I should earn those) and the little Tarutaru proceeded to decimate everything. Swarms of mobs would fall at his feet at the flick of his level 67 black mage wrist. Enemies that could kill me by looking at me.

In a way it was reminiscent of Megaman X. In the first game, the very first stage the boss is set to beat you. You can't damage him, you can't avoid him, cant escape him, and when all hope seems lost Zero busts in and destroys the dude in a single shot. Instantly you are thinking "Man this guy is awesome! I want to be like him, I want to be that strong!" He quickly becomes that cool character, that awesome goal, the strong guy you aspire to. He then proceeds to say that while you are not as strong as him now, someday you will be! This is huge, the promise to one day be as strong as him becomes a big part of the game, collecting health boosts, new armors, new weapons it all has that theme.

From an MMO stand point, watching people topple beasts that send you running in a single blow is a huge incentive to keep playing, they not only become your inspiration, but your rival. They make every level, every grind party, every over ambitious pull worth while. This separation gave players a much more substantial, and sometimes, more meaningful goal than simple end game. To go from a beginner, just learning the ropes, to an equal, a comrade, someone who doesn't just respect these masters, but is respected by them. If these things are easy to achieve, then not only do strong players fail to impress on any substantial level, but you care very little about these self set goals.



Rites of Passage-

Many people fail to bring things like this up but an MMO is a world with players, and that's it. Now a GOOD MMO on the other hand is its own culture. This is shown, not only through the NCPs or the story, but through the players and how they teach and treat each other. I remember when I hit level 10, my friend was quick to tell me that I needed to go to the Valkurm Dunes and find a party. This place was where I learned how to party, and it was a lot to learn from me as I was a warrior and therefor the tank (I remember when I first died, and after a resurrect I ran right back into battle not knowing anything about weakened status, not a good idea for a tank, but you have to admit I showed the will and tenacity for the job)

This journey was a big deal, they congratulated me on my accomplishments, the told me how close I was to my sub job all of these things were treated as mile stones, achievements worthy of praise, and celebration. Me and my party was lead into the dunes by an experienced and strong player, to teach us how to hunt our prey. He taught our thief how to pull, our DDs and healers how to keep hate off of them, as well as teaching me how to keep hate where I wanted it, and who to protect from it. He then would stay and watch us fight as we took our first few enemies, always ready to spring into action if ever we needed help. It was like a first hunt. Experienced hunters came along to teach us how to survive the hostile world and after that we were on our own, "adults" if you will. It made my levels going up was actually connected to my character growing up. He felt like he was growing into a warrior, and how the community treated this only solidified it.

Now if the game's "Journey" is too fast, and leveling does not give time to truly develop any traditions, then the Culture of the game is lost. Not only is there no need for these moments of learning how to play under the watchful eye of your elders, but there is no reason to celebrate getting to level 10 or getting a chocobo, none of it feels like noteworthy accomplishment.

Small stories, Overarching Stories-

A story is more than a plot. The plot may define the path taken but the story is what happens along that path. (Here is the promised Skyrim Mention) In Skyrim one of the things that amazed me the most was the diversity of my adventures. They weren't diverse because I just went point A to point B, it was all the things that happend in the middle. I did the magic collage quests and at one point I had started to head back to the collage to complete a quest. As I entered the courtyard I heard a huge roar as a dragon decided to attack when I was most vulnerable, without my swords (I was doing the mage quests right Dang it!) I was forced to resort to my much lesser mage skills to defeat the beast. Suddenly the job I was working on a second ago didn't matter, nothing mattered but this moment. This was one of my most epic and greatest challenges I have had in the game. It wasn't even end game, not close, it was a distraction in the middle of an out of the way SIDE QUEST!

In Skyrim I have had many such moments. I have met many different people, traveled with a variety of mages and warriors, and overcome things that I still can't beleive I have overcome. Moments like this in a game like Skyrim are limited (without mods of course PC FTW!) You can only meet so many people, travel with so many friends and only do the same quest so many times before it becomes old. But in an MMO it is endless. Sure the overarching story is 1-50. But what about the encounters that define us until then? If a game becomes so obsessed with 50 then a lot is missed 1-49. No need to meet new people, no chance to laugh at mistakes or swap war stories with the others while the healer rests for mp, or maybe you just dance at each other.

The fact is that the grind is never a grind if you do so with the right people. I soloed in FFXI a lot and didn't care how long it took me. I enjoyed talking over my linkshell, randomly declaring my love of nachos or getting in a RPed glue fight with the linkshell leader. Was it stupid? Yes. But I loved every moment of it because of the people involved, whether in my linkshell or in a party with me, MMOs have the ability to give encounters with limitless characters, all of which have a unique background and story. And while long lasting friends are great, even one time encounters, or rare meetups, are have such meaning.


Am I saying that the game should go to a months to level, grind fest? No. All I am saying is that if all a game focuses on is the end game content, look how much we miss out on. If someone comes up to you and says, "Seinfeld was a show about nothing" or "West Wing was about a president who got elected again and then someone else got elected" would you say you experienced anything? If all the game is, is endgame, then it's like fast forwarding through any tv show and then watching the last episode. Even though you watched the last episode, you missed too much to say you experienced anything of any value. You never learn to love the characters, never feel good for their achievements, and never feel bad when they are hurting. All you got was them saying goodbye, and I wouldn't watch a show that was nothing but goodbyes from people I don't care for.

[Rokien]

I agree on making leveling longer, what is the point in buying armor if you are level 30 in one day? Then level 50 the next.