The Journey - Is It Still Wanted?

[AlexNiculaie]

I can certainly see slowing down leveling somewhat, a few weeks to get to 50 from 1, rather than a day or two, but not the asinine grind that was in FFXI. Dear god that was just plain idiocy. How anyone could long for that is beyond me.

[Issac]

By the way Kiara, words cannot express how grateful I am that you took the time to inspire nostalgia into me and countless others tonight.

So alarmingly true, an experience that I miss dearly as no MMO has even come close to what FFXI was for me. I hate to bring this up, well, who am I kidding. I love to use this point because of how true it rings to me: Ever since WoW came along, the MMO genre (If you can even still call it that,) has gone downhill. In my opinion. Weigh it as you wish.

[Kiara]

By the way Kiara, words cannot express how grateful I am that you took the time to inspire nostalgia into me and countless others tonight.

So alarmingly true, an experience that I miss dearly as no MMO has even come close to what FFXI was for me. I hate to bring this up, well, who am I kidding. I love to use this point because of how true it rings to me: Ever since WoW came along, the MMO genre (If you can even still call it that,) has gone downhill. In my opinion. Weigh it as you wish.

Hi Issac,

No problem. (^_^) Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Journey. Like you, Final Fantasy XI really provided some of the best experiences I had an MMORPG.

[JGwinters]

Thanks for creating this thread. Today I sorely needed a reminder that there are people to whom the journey matters.

[Altanas]

I wholly favour the Journey, but I dont feel it eminates from the Grind at all.



I liked the traditional xp party, but hated the fact you just camped in one spot the whole time. I spent 10 hours in Boyada Tree in one camp /groan, and didnt learn much about my job as it became a brainless exercise.

I dont feel part of the world in a grind party camp, I feel like I'm doing nothing to the world just killing the same crab over and over. I much prefer objective based parties like Assaults (as opposed to Guildleves style objectives) and roaming parties (overworld or dungeons) as these mix tactics up so it doesnt become a snoozefest.

There is a clear reason why grind parties should not be centre stage - because most grind parties dont bother with half the zones mentioned in the OP.

I'd agree that partying is pretty much how to meet new people though, but the most cherished memories comes from adventuring with those new friends while trying to do a quest or mission (i.e. a non grindy activity) - that is the Journey. 14 lacks this Journey.



Ironically, places like Temple of Uggalepih are cherished not because of any xp parties, but because they were visited so rarely and even then just for unique quests or missions.

I'd also say that in 11 yes we have cherished memories from going to Dunes or Qufim, but I would say the best memories in 11 actually come from the frustration of failing the Missions so much you have to keep doing them every evening to clear them. You log on each time and see at least the same people wanting to try again and again.

I would say it was the sheer difficulty of the Missions that taught people how to play their jobs rather than the grind parties. If you knew your job through xp parties then surely you would have passed the Mission first time no? This comes round in circles and asks what is the point of the Grind.

There might be this one Tarutaru who wants to sub WAR on his BLM and you all /sigh. You might part ways but at a later Mission you'l cross paths again, and then a year or two later when you walk around Sea and see that same Tarutaru BLM friend now perfectly soloing sharks it makes you smile. Then another year or two later the same Tarutaru twaddles into Walk of Echoes showing off his new Shiny Spell only to get smacked for over 9000 damage, again makes you smile and together you laugh it off.

To draw from this though, the Missions in 11 were all end-game in a sense and it was from all these perfectly placed end game points that you learnt your role.

The Promyvion missions at 30 were an end game to the level 30 characters. You explored Promyvion with your level 30 group going up several floors to a boss. It was the first time you would have been in a roaming party and told to stop because the WHM had to rest (something you didnt realise in all those levels before).

In later years, Sky, Sea, Walk of Echoes et al became endgame events and you learn your role through exposure to differing strategy, not through brainless snoozefests whacking on a defenceless crab.

What, I would say, 14 needs, for the community to grow and to experience the Journey, are those group orientated missions with zones locked away until they are completed.


This thread really raises a number of issues

1.Journey - the memories - 14 doesnt have this because of its lack of forced group content/missions. There is no place in 14 that compares to say Temple of Uggalepih from 11 - i.e. there is no place that we must go to with at least one other person. Or lets put it in a stronger way --> there is no place that anyone dare go to without at least one other person. There is no place as frightening as Castle Zvahl that it has you on the edge of your seat at level 50.

2.Grind - Granted we need some Grind in an MMO - but can we move on from "xp parties" in 11's sense of standing still killing the same crab as it spawns again and again.

3.Learning your role - Can you do it through Grind or Can you do once your at your "end game" point. I would have to say as 11's community matured, the newer players learnt at endgame. This is because the veterans led the xp parties and ensured there were no accidental links. A newer player could get to 75 with perfect parties, but then have never learnt about coping with links until doing endgame.


Just for clarity, my best friends in 11, with the exception of one, were players that i NEVER met in a grind party - i met them in other ways all in game.

[Kiara]

I wholly favour the Journey, but I dont feel it eminates from the Grind at all.

I liked the traditional xp party, but hated the fact you just camped in one spot the whole time. I spent 10 hours in Boyada Tree in one camp /groan, and didnt learn much about my job as it became a brainless exercise.

I'd agree that partying is pretty much how to meet new people though, but the most cherished memories comes from adventuring with those new friends while trying to do a quest or mission (i.e. a non grindy activity) - that is the Journey. 14 lacks this Journey.

Hi Altanas,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Oh I totally agree regarding Missions. In a perfect world, I think a dream MMO for me would be one where everyone could gain Experience and Level Up via Cinematic, Glorious Adventures (Missions) on the same level of quality of cinematography, in-depth storyline and with dramatic situations as Chains of Promathea's Missions.

Imagine if you could party with friends or strangers via some new interesting Mission that took you around Eorzea every night?

THAT would be amazing and far more interesting than just pure EXP Grinding, but we all know that's not realistic. No Development Team could sustain that much high-quality content for that much time (from Level 1 -> Max and have a good variety of it). One can dream.

But I hope we get more dramatic, interesting Missions when 2.0 hits, with challenging situations like we had in Chains of Promathea.

I actually met some of my best friends from random EXP Parties in XI and some great JP Players who became good friends.

[Allistar]

I wholly favour the Journey, but I dont feel it eminates from the Grind at all.



I liked the traditional xp party, but hated the fact you just camped in one spot the whole time. I spent 10 hours in Boyada Tree in one camp /groan, and didnt learn much about my job as it became a brainless exercise.

I dont feel part of the world in a grind party camp, I feel like I'm doing nothing to the world just killing the same crab over and over. I much prefer objective based parties like Assaults (as opposed to Guildleves style objectives) and roaming parties (overworld or dungeons) as these mix tactics up so it doesnt become a snoozefest.

There is a clear reason why grind parties should not be centre stage - because most grind parties dont bother with half the zones mentioned in the OP.

I'd agree that partying is pretty much how to meet new people though, but the most cherished memories comes from adventuring with those new friends while trying to do a quest or mission (i.e. a non grindy activity) - that is the Journey. 14 lacks this Journey.



Ironically, places like Temple of Uggalepih are cherished not because of any xp parties, but because they were visited so rarely and even then just for unique quests or missions.

I'd also say that in 11 yes we have cherished memories from going to Dunes or Qufim, but I would say the best memories in 11 actually come from the frustration of failing the Missions so much you have to keep doing them every evening to clear them. You log on each time and see at least the same people wanting to try again and again.

I would say it was the sheer difficulty of the Missions that taught people how to play their jobs rather than the grind parties. If you knew your job through xp parties then surely you would have passed the Mission first time no? This comes round in circles and asks what is the point of the Grind.

There might be this one Tarutaru who wants to sub WAR on his BLM and you all /sigh. You might part ways but at a later Mission you'l cross paths again, and then a year or two later when you walk around Sea and see that same Tarutaru BLM friend now perfectly soloing sharks it makes you smile. Then another year or two later the same Tarutaru twaddles into Walk of Echoes showing off his new Shiny Spell only to get smacked for over 9000 damage, again makes you smile and together you laugh it off.

To draw from this though, the Missions in 11 were all end-game in a sense and it was from all these perfectly placed end game points that you learnt your role.

The Promyvion missions at 30 were an end game to the level 30 characters. You explored Promyvion with your level 30 group going up several floors to a boss. It was the first time you would have been in a roaming party and told to stop because the WHM had to rest (something you didnt realise in all those levels before).

In later years, Sky, Sea, Walk of Echoes et al became endgame events and you learn your role through exposure to differing strategy, not through brainless snoozefests whacking on a defenceless crab.

What, I would say, 14 needs, for the community to grow and to experience the Journey, are those group orientated missions with zones locked away until they are completed.


This thread really raises a number of issues

1.Journey - the memories - 14 doesnt have this because of its lack of forced group content/missions. There is no place in 14 that compares to say Temple of Uggalepih from 11 - i.e. there is no place that we must go to with at least one other person. Or lets put it in a stronger way --> there is no place that anyone dare go to without at least one other person. There is no place as frightening as Castle Zvahl that it has you on the edge of your seat at level 50.

2.Grind - Granted we need some Grind in an MMO - but can we move on from "xp parties" in 11's sense of standing still killing the same crab as it spawns again and again.

3.Learning your role - Can you do it through Grind or Can you do once your at your "end game" point. I would have to say as 11's community matured, the newer players learnt at endgame. This is because the veterans led the xp parties and ensured there were no accidental links. A newer player could get to 75 with perfect parties, but then have never learnt about coping with links until doing endgame.


Just for clarity, my best friends in 11, with the exception of one, were players that i NEVER met in a grind party - i met them in other ways all in game.

This is the type of feedback that SE should be concentrating on...this is the reason why IMO FFXI should have been used as inspiration for FFXIV, not so much as to copy or make it FFXI 2, but because it serves as a much better guide than most of the other mmorpg's out there who all have tried on WoW's formula and failed terribly...XI had its own identity, it stood out in a crowd and it survived against a 10 mil pound whale...XIV can do the exact same thing...take what made XI a success in its fan's eyes and apply it here, but expand on those ideas....XIV has the potential to be a great game, but SE needs to start concentrating on what they know best about rpgs and apply it here...I mean seriously if they didn't have a winning formula we wouldn't have FF1-10, 12 and 13 offline getting the accolades that do and have

[IStolzI]

If popular vote is get rid of grinding and make leveling an overnight thing, fine.

However, it irritates me that despite this, they add so much lvl 20-30 content. There are over 9 GC missions that are lvl 25~ required just to enter a GC. It would be faster just to keep leveling and come back to speed through them at a higher lvl then to do them at the recommended lvl.

Instead of all these mid level quests we should have been getting lvl 40-50 quests/leves to match the concept that a new player should be level 50 in 1-2 weeks.

[Estellios]

^^ This guy gets it, this is why stuff is memorable for me.

[Volsung]

While I think XI's grind was a lil too slow orginally, I think XIV's is too fast at the moment. Just a smidgen too fast.