Eight Fixes to Make These Changes Good.

[Viridiana]

You realize you are basically arguing in favor of nerfing archer right? Gaining Auto-attack, means loosing all of the abilities that made the previous Manual attack so powerful. By loosing all of those skills in favor of auto-attack you are Taking a significant hit to your DPS.

Gaining auto attack means losing the abilities that made manual attacking so spiky. If anything, they can buff the damage done by the individual shots, because Multishot and Trifurcate were essentially haste effects, and we all know haste is an extremely powerful stat. Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

Essentially, though, I'd say that Light Shot/Multishot/Trifurcate should never have been such a major component of ARC damage to start with. If these changes mean that ARC weapon skills become more prominent without nerfing ARC damage overall, I'm all for it.

[Alerith]

Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

[Kiote]

I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

[Viridiana]

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

No, it won't be moot. Auto attack continues along at the same pace regardless of the player's latency or reaction time. That's easily adding up to half of a second every three seconds or so. So, no, you'll've traded manual control for increased damage. I also don't know where you're getting this idea that it'll lower damage. But, then, you never responded to my last post, either. . .

[Kiote]

No, it won't be moot. Auto attack continues along at the same pace regardless of the player's latency or reaction time. That's easily adding up to half of a second every three seconds or so. So, no, you'll've traded manual control for increased damage. I also don't know where you're getting this idea that it'll lower damage. But, then, you never responded to my last post, either. . .

SO, now your defense of Auto-Attack is that it makes being an Archer easier? We must be world apart about what makes a game good. I personally do not need the game to do it for me. I like there to be a little Skill involved in my game play. Archer was the last DD in the game that offer real player dependent skill. It required the user to moderate there damage and time there attacks. What you are advocating is watching your TP bar fill up and hitting a weapon skill. You are advocating the removal of skill, class uniqueness, engaging combat, and Potency. You would sacrifice all of that so that your class isn't to hard?

[Rentahamster]

It required the user to moderate there damage and time there attacks.

Maybe in patch 1.18, but surely not in patch 1.19. Due to the archer nerfs, their damage output is so pitiful they never pull hate from me.

[Viridiana]

SO, now your defense of Auto-Attack is that it makes being an Archer easier? We must be world apart about what makes a game good. I personally do not need the game to do it for me. I like there to be a little Skill involved in my game play. Archer was the last DD in the game that offer real player dependent skill. It required the user to moderate there damage and time there attacks. What you are advocating is watching your TP bar fill up and hitting a weapon skill. You are advocating the removal of skill, class uniqueness, engaging combat, and Potency. You would sacrifice all of that so that your class isn't to hard?

We have different definitions of skill, apparently. Pushing the 1 key every 3.5 seconds or so is no more skillful than saying "bang" out loud every 3.5 seconds or so. There's really no skill to it to speak of. Letting the game handle that for you (and more efficiently, at that) opens up room for you to be doing other things instead.

For example, if I went to Ifrit right now on my PGL, I could do things like popping Raging Strike, Ferocity, and Blindside while I still only have 1500 TP in preparation for a 3k TP Victimize. I know that all of those abilities will stay active until I have enough TP to do the attack, and then I can use them again sooner for a different attack. If I tried to do that on ARC, well, I can either Light Shot and waste the buffs, or Barrage and hope it does significant damage. Yes, I realize ARC doesn't have a native 3k TP skill, but even if it did, you wouldn't be able to do what I'm talking about with the current setup. On the other hand, even on my PGL, I might mess up and hit Light Strike instead of Victimize, thus wasting my buffs, so I have to actually pay attention to what I'm doing.

Of course, that's not even getting into the animation lock discussion. It's well known that LNC is basically the favored class for Ifrit, but your vaunted Light Shot is why ARC is the bottom of the barrel. At least the other classes can continue their auto attacks in the seconds leading up to Ifrit's attacks, whereas ARC has to be careful on its Light Shots. Note that, in this case, "be careful" actually means "stop attacking."

I'm not advocating "watching [my] TP bar fill up and hitting a weapon skill." I'm advocating using some preliminary buffs while the TP fills and damage rolls in, then starting in on the combos while watching my aggro. It takes just as much skill; we're only just now getting class uniqueness; combat will be about the same level of activity; and I expect ARC potency to go up, if anything. The fact is, ARC isn't "hard" now.

[Alerith]

Of course, that's not even getting into the animation lock discussion. It's well known that LNC is basically the favored class for Ifrit, but your vaunted Light Shot is why ARC is the bottom of the barrel. At least the other classes can continue their auto attacks in the seconds leading up to Ifrit's attacks, whereas ARC has to be careful on its Light Shots. Note that, in this case, "be careful" actually means "stop attacking."

To expand upon this, we don't have an answer on whether or not your character will automatically stand in place when firing. Chances are it won't, since none of the auto-attacks from any other class force this. This will increase your survivability and might even make you MORE desirable for the Ifrit fight since you can move at a greater distance and still attack while any other job will end up missing out on a few hits because they have to run out of their AA range.

There. A tactic for Ifrit. Even though you have said the tactics for ARC would go out the window, I have presented one to you. Why invite 5 LNC who have to miss several seconds of attacking when you can invite 5 ARCs who never have to stop attacking and can still move?

[Alerith]

Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

I apologize. I didn't realize you had poor reading comprehension. I said that it's happening to other jobs, and that any of them could argue their DPS is being lowered. But you don't see those classes raging. I specifically stated that they do NOT need to gimp ARC damage OR attack speed by switching to auto-attack because archer auto-attack damage would not break the job or the enmity table. Auto attack is doing nothing to hurt the job.

And really, if you can't still be strategic with auto-attack, you're a pathetic excuse for a DD.