[Cash Shop Idea] Game Time Token

[Enur]

The tokens would be a separate service not affected by legacy status

[Enur]

And be completely honest with yourself neither bots nor RMT will go away.

Wow removed rmt and bots with a token system. I dont see why FFXIV cant repeat Wows succes in that department. What we have now obviously doesnt work. Bots/Rmt are rampant everywhere. in wow they are absent

[Aldora]

Wow removed rmt and bots with a token system. I dont see why FFXIV cant repeat Wows succes in that department. What we have now obviously doesnt work. Bots/Rmt are rampant everywhere. in wow they are absent

I'm really sorry, if you really think that WoW has removed RMT, check the trade chat. I still see RMT Advertisements every time i log into WoW (i have characters on "Azjol Nerub"). Even from "PvPBank" that advertises on FFXIV too.

[Violyre]

I'm really sorry, if you really think that WoW has removed RMT, check the trade chat. I still see RMT Advertisements every time i log into WoW (i have characters on "Azjol Nerub").

She's right. It will always be there, even if you don't see it. Most RMT tells have died out in FFXIV, but they have their product to sell still.

Also Aldora, is it a good idea to call a RMT site by name? D:

[Chocolys]

She's right. It will always be there, even if you don't see it. Most RMT tells have died out in FFXIV, but they have their product to sell still.

Also Aldora, is it a good idea to call a RMT site by name? D:

Being back after more than a 2 year break, the /tell RMT spam have definively vanished (at least on Moogle where I play), unlike 2 years ago where it was recurrent. I do still regulary see one (not always the same obviously) RMT spammer often near marketboards in Uldah, Gridania and Limsa.

And of course a bunch "Dlkjnfjsdklf Xsjdfxidjjf" named-like characters all stacked at the exact same spot in city, as well as popping weirdly around unspoiled nodes.

Disclaimer: If it happens that a real ""Dlkjnfjsdklf Xsjdfxidjjf" actually exists in the game, this is purely coincidental.

[Enur]

So i just compared the prices of WoW gold from illegitimate site. (I do NOT advocate the use of said sites)

Wow's token-gold is cheaper still.
I was not aware that rmt was still a thing in smaller servers. I mainly roamed high pop EU servers in my wow days. RMT Wasnt thing. if it has returned i deeply apologize for trying to state my opinion based on my observations. I see things from EU standpoint.

i hindsight it seems obvious that RMT is bigger on US servers

[Shirai]

So i just compared the prices of WoW gold from illegitimate site. (I do NOT advocate the use of said sites)

I was not aware that rmt was still a thing in smaller servers. I mainly roamed high pop EU servers in my wow days. RMT Wasnt thing. if it has returned i deeply apologize for trying to state my opinion based on my observations. I see things from EU standpoint.

i hindsight it seems obvious that RMT is bigger on US servers

As far as I am aware both Aldora and I are from the same European country. (They may have moved, I don't know them personally.)
My own girlfriend, who is a WoW player, is pestered by rmt every time she logs in, and she plays on a fairly populated European server.

RMT isn't a regional thing, they are everywhere and players from America do not necessarily buy more gil than Europeans.
That you don't see a lot, doesn't mean that they aren't there.

[alimdia]

Aldora, as much as I'd love to discuss your reasons to oppose it, I can't just for the simple fact that your reasons are very personal, your biggest argument is that you don't like the thought that someone is playing the game without paying their own sub (not a free sub, mind you, since someone else is paying for it and SE is getting money in the end), you seem to value very little any other side effect (positive and negative) and that boggles my mind more than the existence of a sub token, I don't know what you find so extremely wrong about it when everyone benefits from it, including the company, and it's not like people will be forced to use this system, I dare say the majority of WoW players don't buy the token.

[Aldora]

Aldora, as much as I'd love to discuss your reasons to oppose it, I can't just for the simple fact that your reasons are very personal, your biggest argument is that you don't like the thought that someone is playing the game without paying their own sub (not a free sub, mind you, since someone else is paying for it and SE is getting money in the end), you seem to value very little any other side effect (positive and negative) and that boggles my mind more than the existence of a sub token, I don't know what you find so extremely wrong about it when everyone benefits from it, including the company, and it's not like people will be forced to use this system, I dare say the majority of WoW players don't buy the token.

It's not about my personal reasons why i firmly believe that such a system should not exist. It's common sense. Or at least i like to believe that it's common sense that if you want to use a service which requires a subscription fee, that you would have to pay for it yourself. I mean, isn't that the same when using your cellphone? Or read a newspaper? Use public transport?

You keep saying that SE doesn't lose money over it, which in theory is true. Someone will buy a token in the cash shop and put it on the market boards in order to sell it. That in it's own is a problem. They buy the token, not because they want to gift it to others, ow no... They buy it with the intention to get in-game currency in return. That right there is the essence of RMT. Whether or not it's through RMT sites, or "legalized" by SE. It is still RMT. Based on that alone, the system should not exist in a subscription based MMO. And again, there is no way you can justify buying game-time through an in-game currency based on supply and demand.

So, in short, the main issues i have with a system like this are:

- It advocates RMT. It doesn't matter where it comes from. You should not be able to get in-game currency through RMT means, legal or no.
- The in-game economy determines the value of game time, whether or not it's player controlled or controlled by SE. Game time needs to have a fixed price for it. Not have it be determined by supply and demand.

I've said it multiple times, but people seem prefer to ignore that part:

But, make no mistake. I’m all for the opportunity to gift game time to friends or family, but not like this. If you want to gift game time, either buy a game time card for them, or have the ability to purchase game time through the Mog station, which then can be sent directly to the SE account of person you want it to be sent. The person would then receive either a real life e-mail saying that their game time has been extended for the amount which has been paid for, or the person would receive an untradeable and unsellable item in the Moogle Mail box which will extend their game time upon use.

I'm all for gifting people game time, perhaps because you want to introduce them to the game for longer then the free-trial period. However, only with the conditions as mentioned above. The item has to be sent directly to the account of the person you want to gift it to, plus it has to be an untradeable and unsellable item.

It should never be a system which is being presented through Cash Shop tokens you can sell on a Market Board, or can buy with in-game currencies. Those systems should simply not exist in a subscription MMO.

[alimdia]

snip

Trust me, there's nothing close to "common" in that common sense. Say today they add the token, what could go so terribly wrong in the game that the thought of this makes you sick to your stomach? I really want to understand what are the extremely terrible consequences you're seeing. If you decided to answer this question, try answering from the hypothetical scenario where sub token was already added to the game.

About RMT, I explained this in the first page, why do you think RMT is bad for the game? It's not bad "just because", I explained in post #7 what's the big difference between RMT with bot-obtained gil and a sub token sanctioned by SE, one has a deep impact in the economy and no one can control it, the other can be fully controlled by SE. If you remove the primary reasons why RMT is considered bad, what do we have left to oppose?

A last question, what exactly is wrong about a sub token controlled by supply and demand? Having a static price can be damaging to the economy, the economy keeps shifting, there are times gil circulates more and is easier to get, and other items it is not, the prices of all other items in the market are subject to inflation and deflation, why not a sub token that is also purchased with in game currency?

I reiterate, you're reacting like something catastrophic would happen should this is implemented, but you're not explaining what exactly. I want to understand your point of view.

---

@cougarel this game isn't going f2p so I don't understand your comparison, you say bots will stay around as long as they have customers, but isn't the whole point of this token to take away most of their customers?

@Demkristo They have different teams working on different areas of the game.