Multiple linkshells suggestion.

[Alhanelem]

It would be so much better to just type /l1 ~ /l8 and type

no, NOT that. it would not be so much better. In fact, it would be worse. *hotkey* *type as many messages as you want* *hotkey* > *typing /l# before every single message.

See my analysis posted earlier about why the THIS THIS THIS people want so much is actually less efficient than what SE is doing.

With SE's implementation, you'll be able to bind a key to each linkshell you have. ONE keypress to send any number of messages to a given linkshell, instead of 3-4 keypresses for every message you send.

Remember, you can hear all your linkshells at any time. when you "change" linkshells (with the hotkeys or manually) you're really just changing the linkshell that you're talking to.

Being able to switch at any time, even during crafting, should resolve anyone's grievances with the system.

[Enfarious]

that's what /cm [p/s/sh/ln] would be for
and just like now where you can
/p blah blah blah
w/o changing chatmode permanently you could
/4 hey I'm doin this thing
w/o being locked on shell[4]

[Alhanelem]

w/o being locked on shell[4]

You're not locked on anything. You just press a given linkshell's key whenever you want to send a message to that linkshell. it's a lot faster than typing a multi-character slash command.

*ls hotkey1*
hey, lets hang out tonight
Oh? What time?
Okay, see you then
*ls hotkey 2*
I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
Sorry!
*ls hotkey 1*
OK, everything's all settled now
I'll be ready!

versus

/ls1 hey, lets hang out tonight
/ls1 Oh? What time?
/ls1 Okay, see you then
/ls2 I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
/ls2 Sorry!
/ls1 OK, everything's all settled now
/ls1 I'll be ready!

One is much less work than the other. Guess which one?
Top, person had to press three buttons between sending 7 messages.
Bottom, person had to press 28 buttons (4 characters in each slash command x7) in sending 7 messages.

There's nothing "permanent" about the switch. Just press the hotkey for the original shell and switch back.

[Soulfire]

For what its worth you don't need to type /cm l you can just type /l enter.

Whoa! I just checked that with /? and there it was! Nice!
Thanks for the tip!

[Dzian]

verses

hey guys wanna do something
ok sure
lets go
/ls2 sorry guys bit busy
congrats
endless chat in current cmode

1 simple action as oposed to 3. and if you consider the hot keys are likely to be a combo. shift+1 shift+2 etc, then its just as many keypresses as the /ls2 message which is far faster and easier because you can do it all in one action.

as someone pointed out earlier hot keys exist for party, shout, say & linkshell. so do you.....
a:
*hot key linkshell*
hey guys lets do something
ok cool anyone else or i'll put a shout out.
*hot key shout*
event do you need it @x/x
*hot key link shell*
what jobs do you guys wanna be
*hot key shout*
event do you need it @x/x
*hot key linkshell*
got a tank

or do you
b:
hey guys wanna do something
ok cool anyone else or i'll put out a shout.
/sh event do you need it @x/x
what job do you guys wanna be...
/sh event do you need it @x/x
got a tank

[Enfarious]

You're not locked on anything. You just press a given linkshell's key whenever you want to send a message to that linkshell. it's a lot faster than typing a multi-character slash command.

*ls hotkey1*
hey, lets hang out tonight
Oh? What time?
Okay, see you then
*ls hotkey 2*
I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
Sorry!
*ls hotkey 1*
OK, everything's all settled now
I'll be ready!

versus

/ls1 hey, lets hang out tonight
/ls1 Oh? What time?
/ls1 Okay, see you then
/ls2 I can't do that tonight, I'm meeting someone else
/ls2 Sorry!
/ls1 OK, everything's all settled now
/ls1 I'll be ready!

One is much less work than the other. Guess which one?
Top, person had to press three buttons between sending 7 messages.
Bottom, person had to press 28 buttons (4 characters in each slash command x7) in sending 7 messages.

There's nothing "permanent" about the switch. Just press the hotkey for the original shell and switch back.

Think perhaps you misunderstood my meaning of "locked", so as an example.
/1 (w/o text this is the equiv of hitting [ls1] so now my active ls is 1 and cm is /l)
blah blah blah
/4 Hey anyone wanna grind (I don't actually want this to be my active shell, just want to send the one line)
/p (w/o text this is the equiv of /cm p, I don't want to be in linkshell chat default at all right now)
/3 Got 2 xp slots open anyone want in?
/2 Come fill this xp pt for me.
So I asked on a couple shells to try to rep these last couple slots.
(time passes pt dies)
/1 (again w/o anything following the "/1" it switches my chatmode to /cm l and active shell to 1)
Well that parties done.
Anyone doing anything fun or interesting?

I've switched chatmodes less times, pressed less keys, and saved ~8 keystrokes over mashing [ctrl]+[shell n] everytime I want to say something to a shell and then [ctrl+p] to talk to my party again.

All I meant by permanent/locked is that your active shell changes, or your chatmode changes, for instance in a pt more often than not I don't want to change chatmode from /p since more often than not I'm talking to party members. That makes:
[ls1 keys]
Oh as soon as I get 50 (~50k) I'll come do that.
[ctrl+p]
Hang on I need MP!

More keys than:
/1 Oh as soon as I get 50 (~50k) I'll come do that.
Hang on I need MP!

every time no matter how you wanna try to argue it^^

[Alhanelem]

[ctrl]+[shell n] everytime I want to say something to a shell

You don't have to macro it. You can bind it to a single key.

I've switched chatmodes less times, pressed less keys,

You didn't press less keys. At best, if it's a two-letter text command, you've pressed the same number of keys.

Even if you're sending only one message to a different LS (I personally would find this to be extremely rare), it's STILL less keypresses to switch back and forth. The more messages you send to the other LS, the better the new method becomes.

every time no matter how you wanna try to argue it^^

Actually, it's not. It's equal keys, or less. I'll even use your commands (which are too short and could be typed accidentally)

Hey there
what's up
/2 yo guys
ah cool
sweet

vs

hey there
what's up
*hotkey 2*
yo guys
*hotkey 1*
ah cool
sweet

Thhe lower method is STILL fewer keys (3 keys when you include the space for the text command.

We can back and forth this all day if you want, but the fact is, there's nothing wrong with SE's implementation and I can't believe how whiny some people are being. This change is going to come out, you'll use it and it'll work fine, and people will won't even talk about it.

I understand why you're saying the need to switch back is less convenient, but it's not. Perhaps very slightly less intuitive, but that's about it.

as someone pointed out earlier hot keys exist for party, shout, say & linkshell. so do you.....

Actually, i'd be more likely to have shout already on default, but that might just be me having a quiet linkshell. I don't currently have those hotkeys set, but I also don't switch chat modes much because I don't have a busy LS and only really party for dungeons/BC fights.

The only thing I'd like more than what we're getting really, is if the second chat window had its own input box. Typically that one is set to show LS chat only, so I'd like to be able to just type into that box to chat LS and type into the main box for shout/say. Its not really more efficient, but it is intuitive and logical.

[Enfarious]

You don't have to macro it. You can bind it to a single key.

You didn't press less keys. At best, if it's a two-letter text command, you've pressed the same number of keys.

Even if you're sending only one message to a different LS (I personally would find this to be extremely rare), it's STILL less key presses to switch back and forth. The more messages you send to the other LS, the better the new method becomes.

Actually, it's not. It's equal keys, or less. I'll even use your commands (which are too short and could be typed accidentally)

alt+tab gets pressed accidentally too, that's not the point though.

Hey there
what's up
/2 yo guys
ah cool
sweet

vs

hey there
what's up
*hotkey 2*
yo guys
*hotkey 1*
ah cool
sweet

The lower method is STILL fewer keys (3 keys when you include the space for the text command.

Ok based on having a single hotkey, which would make sense here? maybe just "1" for my first shell, so yeah I suppose we get the same effect, but rather than /1 just the 1 and hopefully I remember the /p to talk to my pt again afterward.

We can back and forth this all day if you want, but the fact is, there's nothing wrong with SE's implementation and I can't believe how whiny some people are being. This change is going to come out, you'll use it and it'll work fine, and people will won't even talk about it.

Really why is it whiny, aside from you seeming to want to argue, and of course me needing to kill some time and thinking this is fun for the time being. These are simply opinions, people sharing what they think, I've yet to see anyone stomp and cry about how they "won't" use this new thing. All I've seen up to this point is people tossing ideas that they think might make things better.

I understand why you're saying the need to switch back is less convenient, but it's not. Perhaps very slightly less intuitive, but that's about it.

Really by all definitions less intuitive means learning which means inconvenient, when compared to something that I/we have been doing for a period of time already.

Actually, i'd be more likely to have shout already on default, but that might just be me having a quiet linkshell. I don't currently have those hotkeys set, but I also don't switch chat modes much because I don't have a busy LS and only really party for dungeons/BC fights.

So if that's the case hitting "hotkey" msg "hotkey" "/sh" would be even less convenient for you ... than "/1 yeah I agree"

The only thing I'd like more than what we're getting really, is if the second chat window had its own input box. Typically that one is set to show LS chat only, so I'd like to be able to just type into that box to chat LS and type into the main box for shout/say. Its not really more efficient, but it is intuitive and logical.

That's not a bad idea, I don't have my logs setup that way, but it wouldn't be all that hard to make them that way, then the only problem would be that PS3 thing w/o a mouse, or those that use gamepad/kbd and sit away from their machine while playing, on a big screen or something.

Really though, why did you not just say, "That's not a bad idea maybe they should incorporate both." cause through your post you said that what I was saying wasn't bad?
Is it just that you needed to lash out at something cause you were frustrated by this maintenance we're waiting on?

[Rezzie]

I have to agree with Biggs on this one. As a sackholder in a linkshell, having people jump from linkshell to linkshell hurts the building process when you are trying to make your own linkshell stronger. A lot of people will tend to go to a party in one linkshell that may have a winning record for a certain NM, dungeon, etc. and then when you want them to help your event, they will not come because you haven't established that winning record yet. Building a strong linkshell takes time and loyalty and this holding multiple linkshells takes away the loyalty aspect. I would like to get that latest and best gear but I would like to see my linkshell succeed even more. The bottom line is, this game is for entertainment and that nice piece of armor is virtual anyways. I guess it's up to people to decide what is better - a virtual piece of armor or building a strong relationship in a linkshell.

[Enfarious]

I've gotta agree with ya there Rezzie, building that "human" bond in a linkshell is a bit more challenging when your members may or may not be there. That whole "Well my other shells are better for that." thinking breaks the glue that holds a shell together.
From a slightly different perspective though, if you get people together that aren't interested solely in the "EG" content you stand a better chance of building on the social aspects which in turn will strengthen the bonds for when you happen to be going for "EG" stuff. For instance lowbie xp grinding, easyish NMs for gear for those lowbie jobs(this with 2~3 ppl can easily be a few hrs where eventually you'll end up shootin the shit between pops), questing for w/e. If you build an "EG" shell and don't have the stats to say "We're among the best." the people you get will be either: People trying to carve out a name so they can join the #1 "EG"LS; People that come and go too sporadically to be in a dedicated "EG"LS. In either of those cases your kinda gonna be hurt, wether for members not being around, or for having members that get that name and then move on.

It's far more difficult to say no to people you "hang out" with and talk to everyday than to say no to random people that you just do "events" with.

Just a little off topic there^^