Sharlayan Conjury

[KyeKaru]

One of my friends insists that there is no way a Sharlayan is able to learn conjury by themselves. I am convinced that is not the case, but I cannot find any evidence to support it.
I've only learned that certain Sharlayan characters in the MSQ have learned conjury, but not how they learned it. I know for a fact that Sharlayans can learn conjury, but I need evidence as to how they learned it, where they learned it, and if it's possible for them to teach themselves conjury.
I need citable sources and references. I have looked, and I can't find them, and I don't have the lore book yet. Any help is greatly appreciated. I ask you, the community, to help me put an end to this argument. Please help me.

[Keever]

Of course it is. Gridanians aren't the only folks who've ever learned to draw upon the aether around them to wield curative and offensive magicks. Not every healing adventurer in Ul'dah and Limsa Lominsa had to travel to Gridania to study, and nor did every Ishgardian field chirurgeon (they use conjury). Your player character can start out as a conjurer having never even been to Eorzea before, and they can cast Stone right off the bat, plus more spells if they level up without going to the guild!

Any conjurer who's been at it for long enough could probably teach the art to a newcomer. Sharlayan is a whole nation of learning and study, I'm sure there're plenty of conjury courses at the Studium! Gridanians are just highly respected experts on conjury and communing with nature, and have a dedicated guild for it.

Different local traditions also likely have their own unique techniques: Y'shtola, for example, has her super barrier shield bubble which we can't replicate, but there are probably some high level CNJ spells we have that non-Gridanian conjurers might have rather different versions of.

[swiss_Momo]

Is that friend of yours perhaps mixing up Sharlayans and Garleans for some reason? Because their inborn inability to manipulate aether/cast spells would logically prevent pure blooded Garleans from learning conjury

[FJerome]

According to the Lore Book Sharlayan was founded after an Archon of the Firth Astral Era gathered together the survivors of the War of the Magi and led them to safety.

Given it's pretty likely that that group would have included survivors from the warring cities themselves it would explain why Sharlayan is so damn advanced magically and why Sharlayan characters know supposedly lost and secret White and Black spells - those arts were never actually lost to them. They'd also have no need to barter with the Elementals to learn Conjury if it was passed down to them directly by their Amdapor ancestors.

[Anonymoose]

I suppose conclusions will be warped a bit by semantics from the get-go, no? Conservatively, conjurers-as-we-know-them exist by virtue of Gridanian culture. The exact skill set and belief system are unique to it. Liberally, magicks just like conjury have existed in many places for a long, long time. Allag had "conjurers". Garlean conscripts from far-off lands include "conjurers".

Present-day Sharlayan has more than likely acquired a wealth of tomes and treatises on both past conjury-like magicks and actual Gridanian conjury, however, so it's easy to infer that they would be able to study either interpretation of "conjury". However, if someone is unable to accept Y'shtola and Louisoix as Sharlayan-taught conjurers, I'm not sure there is evidence to cite at this time that will definitively back them into a corner.

[TinyRedLeaf]

KyeKaru is looking for official citations, though, that can conclusively put the matter to rest. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if such references exist. Sounsyy at the Hydaelyn Roleplayers forum might be able to provide more help, in this regard.

But, to expand on what Keever said, back in version 1.0, players could choose to begin as any class in game, including the crafting and gathering classes. And this choice was independent from the player's choice of starting city. Meaning to say, I could choose to start as a pugilist (which Lyland version 1.0 actually did), but begin in Limsa Lominsa, even though the pugilist guild, then as now, was located in Ul'dah.

So, from a role-playing perspective, version 1.0 certainly gave players more freedom to imagine where their characters came from and why they chose to start their adventures in any given city, regardless of their initial skillset. And, by extension, it's therefore possible to claim that the character learnt the fundamentals of conjury in Sharlayan, but later travelled to Gridania to learn the discipline in greater depth.

EDIT:
Just to add to the above, about how class choice and starting city worked in version 1.0, it used to be the case that the initial weapon or tool for every class was available from market vendors in each of the three city-states. And that effectively meant any character could choose to switch to any class, at any time, without first having to visit the city-state where the "official" guild is based.

It works differently in version 2.0 and beyond. While initial weapons and tools can still be bought from vendors (typically described as "weathered", eg, "weathered grimoire" for arcanists), only those for the city's "native" classes can be found ("weathered" weapons and tools can't be sold on market boards). For example, I can't buy a weathered sword and shield from Limsa Lominsa's market today. In the past, back in version 1.0, I could. That was how Lyland v1.0, who started as a pugilist, could also pick up conjury and thaumaturgy, before he even visited Gridania and Ul'dah, respectively.

[Sounsyy]

(Oh wow, my name got brought up on the official forums! =o )

While I don't think there's one specific quote as to the when/why/how/where Sharlayans picked up Conjury, we 1) know they have and 2) the reason they know it is most likely found by examining why the Sharlayans know about anything at all. It's because they actively go out and study, then bring back the information and teach it.

Great Gubal Library
A massive library constructed by the Sharlayans to house the wealth of knowledge they had amassed in their travels across the realm. Though the vast majority of the tomes that once lined its shelves were carried back to the motherland in the exodus, it is said forbidden texts still slumber in sealed-off vaults below.

They’re always trying to learn about everything. They went to Eorzea so they could gain knowledge on that place so of course they probably sent parties into Dravania to study up on them and they would have known about the dragons as well. Their whole thing is they’re a city state of knowledge and they gather it and use that knowledge. They send people out everywhere around the world and bring it back to their island nation. Sharlayan in Eorzea was basically an outpost. So saying they weren’t connected would be a lie because it was more to educate people.

So if an arcane precursor to modern-day Conjury had not already been learned from the 6th Umbral Era survivors Nyunkrepf rescued in Abalathia after the Flood, it's most likely that Sharlayan sages would have eventually traveled to Gelmorra and Gridania in the future to add it to their libraries. And Sharlayan would not be alone in doing this. Ishgard, having been one of Gridania's closest allies since the Autumn War, also teaches a form of Conjury (and Thaumaturgy) in their Scholasticate.

While many seminarians of the Saint Endalim Scholasticate show great aptitude for defensive and restorative magicks, they must also be capable of employing the destructive kind as the situation demands. We have need of three suitable rods for the upcoming trials to join the vaunted ranks of the Temple Knights.

Does this mean that the Ishgardians or the Sharlayans assign any deeper religious meanings to those arts that their respective city-states hold? That we don't know. Are they identical forms of Conjury to that of Gridania? Likely not- if only due to the purpose of their use. Y'shtola is not likely what Gridanians refer to as a "Hearer", a conjurer who is able to hear the whispers of the elementals. Note: All Hearers are natural-born conjurers, but not all conjurers become Hearers. We know elementals exist all over the world, from the Far East to Meracydia to Sharlayan and beyond, but they are certainly less present and active in the world outside of the protection of the Twelveswood's Hedge. Meaning that while a Sharlayan and Ishgardian might use and understand Conjury in much the same way (or different way) than the Gridanians, they most likely do not utilize Conjury for the same purpose as the Gridanians - that being to commune with the elementals.

We conjurers hear the whispers of the elementals, and see to it that their will is made known to all Gridanians. That is why many of our order regularly journey deep into the forest.

Here's a little bit more lore on the history of how the Gelmorrans and later Gridanians would come to learn Conjury. I think it's quite telling that the lore book confirms further that the Conjurers' Guild is an open establishment, meaning that all one really has to do to be taught Conjury is to travel there- something that could further explain away both Ishgard's and Sharlayan's understanding of the art, if the explanations above weren't convincing. What's more, is that the Conjurers of Gridania actively travel out into the world to halt the abuse of dangerous magicks, something we see in the Heavensward Black Mage storyline in fact. It's very likely that one such conjurer, or multiple, paid visits to Sharlayan's Studium in regards to their own expansive use and misuse of magical knowledge.

The Fifth Astral Era saw a blossoming of magic, and grand civilizations arose with command over a thousand and one varieties of the arcane arts. However, after the War of the Magi triggered the Sixth Umbral Calamity, the practice of magic was strictly forbidden. Though much knowledge was lost, some modest magicks, low in risk and easy to wield, have survived to the present day. The Gelmorrans were the heirs to such small spells, and explored the arcane arts as best they could. The mages who first communed with the elementals learned much from the beings, particularly how to harness the forces of nature. From this grew a form of magic in Gridania known as conjury. Practitioners established the Conjurers' Guild, and there instruct Hearers in their spells. From its founding, the guild has worked to prevent the dangerous abuse of magic, and today opens its doors even to adventurers seeking to learn of conjury.

It is the moogles who first taught the language of the elementals to man. It was thanks to their efforts that some learned to hear the elementals, and understand them, as we do now. Even so, it requires arduous training to nurture the gift.

Y'shtola Rhul - Truthseeker:
Wishing to gift Y'shtola a weapon worthy of its bearer, Tataru procured a length of rare petrified wood and commissioned renowned conjurer E-Sumi-Yan with the creation of a staff to rival any and all the realm has seen. After purifying the branch in the crystal-clear waters of a Twelveswood stream, Brother E-Sumi-Yan sanctified it in the presence of the elementals, thus earning the beings' blessing. By report, Truthseeker requires great skill to wield, but grants great power to those who can.

Hope this helps! ^^

[KyeKaru]

Thank you everyone for the replies. It goes without saying that the replies I got were more than enough to convince who I was arguing with that there is a very real possibility for Sharlayans to use conjury without the need of Gridania and the Shroud. In fact, the replies that I got were extremely overwhelming.
Thank you.

[Eloah]

Different local traditions also likely have their own unique techniques: Y'shtola, for example, has her super barrier shield bubble which we can't replicate, but there are probably some high level CNJ spells we have that non-Gridanian conjurers might have rather different versions of.

The Barrier Y'shtola uses is the AST shield. So we do know it but not as a CNJ.

[Ametrine]

The Barrier Y'shtola uses is the AST shield. So we do know it but not as a CNJ.

It's not an exact copy. Y'shtola's is a short duration that just outright halts incoming damage. The one AST learns is a longer lastimg zone that casts a version of both the regen and sheilding to those that enter.

Y'shtola's seems to be some sort of derivative of the AST version, but looking at her overpowered master in Matoya, who's magic power is mystery, it could be anything from Y'shtola having some Astromancy training to Sharlayan's brand of Conjury pulls top techniques from other schools. (Like with Y'shtola's specialty in teleportation magic.)