Class Reforms and Action List, Pugilist perspective

[Arcell]

You guys are crazy. I think PGL/MNK has some of the most unique and interesting abilities. Cant wait to try it out.

The abilities are unique and interesting, but almost all of them constantly drain MP. Kicks? MP. Element attacks? MP. Basic attacks? MP. Unless Pugilist/Monk ends up getting the most MP out of any DoW class/job, it's going to be rough keeping that damage up without a Bard present. Without a means of constant MP regeneration, you're going to lose all of your offensive viability once you run out of MP.

[MattyWS]

Jeez you guys don't even know how it will play out and you're complaining. For all you know this update is to be put in place for future changes that the player base do not know about. You do not have all of the information to judge yet, all you can do is sit back and watch. Some of the people on here are like retarded WoW players; "OMG THAT PATCH INFORMATION IS ENOUGH FOR ME TO HAVE PLAYED THE PATCH BEFORE RELEASE AND I THINK IT SUCKS NOW CHANGE IT SE" is pretty much all I'm hearing.

And this is the part where people say they don't mean to sound harsh but, I do. ¬_¬

[grandm]

Jeez you guys don't even know how it will play out and you're complaining. For all you know this update is to be put in place for future changes that the player base do not know about. You do not have all of the information to judge yet, all you can do is sit back and watch. Some of the people on here are like retarded WoW players; "OMG THAT PATCH INFORMATION IS ENOUGH FOR ME TO HAVE PLAYED THE PATCH BEFORE RELEASE AND I THINK IT SUCKS NOW CHANGE IT SE" is pretty much all I'm hearing.

And this is the part where people say they don't mean to sound harsh but, I do. ¬_¬

they say information is power. and a little bit of information in the hands of a fool can have drastic consequences

i agree, wait and see, who knows how this will play out

[Vackashken]

Jeez you guys don't even know how it will play out and you're complaining. For all you know this update is to be put in place for future changes that the player base do not know about. You do not have all of the information to judge yet, all you can do is sit back and watch. Some of the people on here are like retarded WoW players; "OMG THAT PATCH INFORMATION IS ENOUGH FOR ME TO HAVE PLAYED THE PATCH BEFORE RELEASE AND I THINK IT SUCKS NOW CHANGE IT SE" is pretty much all I'm hearing.

And this is the part where people say they don't mean to sound harsh but, I do. ¬_¬

See this post? The one below here.

The abilities are unique and interesting, but almost all of them constantly drain MP. Kicks? MP. Element attacks? MP. Basic attacks? MP. Unless Pugilist/Monk ends up getting the most MP out of any DoW class/job, it's going to be rough keeping that damage up without a Bard present. Without a means of constant MP regeneration, you're going to lose all of your offensive viability once you run out of MP.

This post is spot on. It doesn't take me playing it or to be a rocket scientist to come to the same conclusion that aforementioned post states. Pug was screwed up when they added mp to the equation. Now we're going to be even more dependent on it and could possibly be hamstrung from party selection if said party doesn't have a brd.

Given the history of the class and the game itself you better believe there is reason to be wary of this. If they screw it up - which is all to real a possibility - we're fooked. Again.

[grandm]

See this post?




This post is spot on. It doesn't take me playing it or to be a rocket scientist to come to the same conclusion that aforementioned post states. Pug was screwed up when they added mp to the equation. Now we're going to be even more dependent on it and could possibly be hamstrung from party selection if said party doesn't have a brd.

Given the history of the class and the game itself you better believe there is reason to be wary of this. If they screw it up - which is all to real a possibility - we're fooked. Again.

this is the point, you really don't know that (unless you are a dev who has been testing all this) you don't know how quick these moves will use up mp, you don't know how much mp the absorb move will give you back, you don't know hww much more mp the absorb move will give you back when part of the combo.

we have always got on just fine with second wind, dps with litttle need for help off a mage for heals. so why do you assume our absorb won't work as well as second wind?

[Vackashken]

this is the point, you really don't know that (unless you are a dev who has been testing all this) you don't know how quick these moves will use up mp, you don't know how much mp the absorb move will give you back, you don't know hww much more mp the absorb move will give you back when part of the combo.

we have always got on just fine with second wind, dps with litttle need for help off a mage for heals. so why do you assume our absorb won't work as well as second wind?

Again: It doesn't take a genius to realize that unless its perfect - and I do mean perfect - making us use MP constantly could be catastrophic unless done 100% correctly. The second it (it being mp with attacks) was introduced it was poorly done -- and that was with just using mp on a few attacks, never mind the majority of them.

Sorry, SE doesn't even come close to deserving a "benefit of the doubt" argument. That went out the door a year ago.

[Arcell]

this is the point, you really don't know that (unless you are a dev who has been testing all this) you don't know how quick these moves will use up mp, you don't know how much mp the absorb move will give you back, you don't know hww much more mp the absorb move will give you back when part of the combo.

we have always got on just fine with second wind, dps with litttle need for help off a mage for heals. so why do you assume our absorb won't work as well as second wind?

True we don't know the specifics but with all of those abilities that increase our damage being MP drain based, the only conclusion one can make is that without MP you're doing sub-par damage now compared to your full potential. Currently when you run out of MP on Pugilist you lose 2 of your 3 basic attacks, drastically reducing your damage and TP gain potential. Your options at that point are to attempt to get an evade off of Featherfoot (which is only viable if you're tanking or the enemy uses AoE attacks) or you can stand still and regen MP. Now add onto that the abilities that give you element damage, these constantly drain MP. Once you're out of MP, again you've now lost a chunk of your damage potential.

I assume the new MP drain WS won't work like Second Wind because it is only a chance. How much of a chance? No idea. How much MP drain? No idea. These facts could shed some light on how bad this could be for Pugilist. It might be fine and the MP drain is substantial enough to outweigh the abilities that drain our MP, or it could be insufficient and Pugilist is just fighting a battle with their MP bar for any extended fight.

You're right, I don't know exactly how this will all turn out. What I can do however is infer and come to conclusions based on the information we do have. If they want feedback, this is my feedback to them. Discussing what I feel may be the problems with it based on the current information. I'm not saying it's the end of the god damn world but I do already see some potential issues coming out of this.

[MeowyWowie]

this is the point, you really don't know that (unless you are a dev who has been testing all this) you don't know how quick these moves will use up mp, you don't know how much mp the absorb move will give you back, you don't know hww much more mp the absorb move will give you back when part of the combo.

we have always got on just fine with second wind, dps with litttle need for help off a mage for heals. so why do you assume our absorb won't work as well as second wind?

Well, if history is any lesson, they didn't test the current MP costs very well. Let's assume PGL is your only class at lv50, all others are low level, not high enough for MP regeneration abilities. How long can you fight in a party situation before you have to disengage and rest MP, just so you can have your 2 normal attacks back? About 10 minutes..

This is with their "testing" mind you.

Of course the argument of "just level another class" exists, but that shouldn't matter. Leveling other classes should enhance your current class, not be required to play your current class. The whole idea of MP costs on PGL is just ridiculous, I think they could have been a bit more creative.

Why not a Chi based system? Most (if not all?) forms of martial arts in the real world are based on Chi if I'm not mistaken.

They could have given us some abilities that replenish our Chi, whether it be jabs, meditation or other defensive abilities.

Other abilities would consume Chi. Some would require and consume Chi to be executed, Some wouldn't require, but would be enhanced with Chi. Others could have varying potency based on how much Chi you have stored, but not consume it.

A system like this would have been much more fitting for a martial arts class, it just fits. This adds an interesting and unique element to the class.

But MP? No thanks. I don't need to eat magic mushrooms to kick someone in the face..

[MeowyWowie]

Jeez you guys don't even know how it will play out and you're complaining. For all you know this update is to be put in place for future changes that the player base do not know about. You do not have all of the information to judge yet, all you can do is sit back and watch. Some of the people on here are like retarded WoW players; "OMG THAT PATCH INFORMATION IS ENOUGH FOR ME TO HAVE PLAYED THE PATCH BEFORE RELEASE AND I THINK IT SUCKS NOW CHANGE IT SE" is pretty much all I'm hearing.

And this is the part where people say they don't mean to sound harsh but, I do. ¬_¬

They said that they were releasing these notes prior to 1.20 in order to get player feedback so they can make adjustments in the future. I wish I could find the quote but really don't feel like looking for it now.

So no, it's not just QQing. Some people want to play a hand to hand class without requiring MP for all their actions.

[MattyWS]

Your explanation of "chi" is pretty much an explanation of how MP works, all you did was replace 'MP' with 'Chi'. And sure the word 'Chi' would fit nicely but other than that, how would it differ gameplay wise? Which is what everyone is complaining about.