[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Starlord]

Honestly, I love the changes to CNJ and THM. You can actually SEE what they are now. I was tired of all the different spells and crap to use as a THM and all the useless nukes for CNJ.

I can understand how the lore might not make sense now, but remember you voted for this game to be funementally changed. They might be changing what the lore is for 2.0. Just wait and see.

Agreed, it makes ALOT more sense.. both with Dot's and Offensive attacks.. both have the Ability to heal ( THM= Sac CNJ= Cure) Those classes had no Definition.. they two sides of the same sword... Now they will have definition come 1.20 =).

[TinnySnips]

I see a lot of complaining, which I expected, and some of it is pretty valid. However, a few of the complaints lead me to believe that this is a job for Barbara Bush. CON still has a few options for cures (though they're not as mechanically varied as I had hoped), and it still has DD (of the elements one would expect for a Gridanian class). GLA/PLD has a ton of enmity gain and damage mitigation. THM is the new BLM, which we have known to expect for quite a while. MRD looks like an amazing clutch off-tank/DD, and they have given PGL a unique skillset, relying on MP, which allows you to change your damage type. LNC has sacrificed most of its utility in exchange for more damage. ARC seems to have a proper auto-attack and a lot of extra utility, though it will almost certainly demand a more involved playstyle.

The only thing that seems to be missing is debuffs. My guess: the new DoM class will be coming sooner rather than later, and it will be the debuff class. I'm not saying it'll be here in time for 1.20, but I would expect it within the next 6 months. The combat will suffer without appropriate debuffs and DoTs (it will probably still be better than now, but it'll feel somewhat hollow without this element).

[Atoli]

They copied FFIII for the elemetal spells for CNJ.

What they did copy was everything all the other MMORPGs already have:
Boring classes of which everyone knows what they can do and what not.
What was wrong with letting CON have good nuking abilities solo and acting as a white mage only when the job stone was equipped(usually in parties)?
Why make the entire class a white mage now, depriving it of any need for a job?

[JGwinters]

I do not believe he was calling it a nerf so much as a... stylistic difference in opinion. I personally agree. The hybrid DD-support role that LNC was originally imagined as was extremely appealing to me, and this current trend of making them pure DD is somewhat disheartening. That being said, there are plenty of things to like still. I have to say, PGL, for all of the fact that managing your MP may be difficult, sounds absolutely fascinating now.

Right on. Although I did use the word nerf, as changing a support-DD into a DD is exactly what a nerf is to me: removing of its mastering of control. In other words, a nerf. Adding more DD-capability doesn't factor into it, it's that they removed the support capabilities that matters.

And Sephrick..no, I haven't been to the Ifrit battle. Like I said in a previous post I almost exclusively solo and duo. Naturally, if you're an end-game type of person this makes your definitions wildly different from mine when it comes to what a nerf is and what matters in a class.

[DeadRiser]

What they did copy was everything all the other MMORPGs already have:
Boring classes of which everyone knows what they can do and what not.
What was wrong with letting CON have good nuking abilities solo and acting as a white mage only when the job stone was equipped(usually in parties)?
Why make the entire class a white mage now, depriving it of any need for a job?

Because I got tired of people adding me to a party as CNJ just so I can heal. Same for THM. I don't ALWAYS want to heal. I like to nuke, and both classes having healing spells was horrible. Now we have distinct classes, and CNJ still has some nuking.

[Kiote]

I seriously cant believe people are Defending these Spell Changes..

Yoshida blatantly lied to us by saying the way we play a class will not change.

Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix.

On top of that he has completely back tracked on his promise to make this game More Final Fantasy like by distorting all of the "Jobs" he was bringing in supposedly for that purpose.

These Ability changes are awful.

His unnecessary need to restrict the number of abilities a player gains to the number they can equip has sevearly undermined the Capabilities of Almost every class.

There is no Excuse for Gladiator to be Fully Defensive, Paladin is the Tank

There is No reason for Puglist to have elemental skills, they will only gimp it's DMG output against 75% of the enemies.

There is no reason for LNC to become a Glass Cannon

There is no Excuse for completely disregarding Con lore and ripping out all of there offensive capabilities.

MOST IMPORTANTLY

There is Absolutly No Viable Reason to Restrict a MAGE to 15 Skills(Not even 15 spells) when there are Over 100 spells in the history of Final Fantasy. This is Unacceptable. Every Mage should have atleast 30 Spells. They should NOT be able to have them all ready at all times. They SHOULD have a diverse aray of skill that to not directly conflict with the Lore behind their Class.

[Hyrist]

1. I said "pretty much" all of them, not exactly all of them.
I'm well aware of the fact that two elements have been left with CON, which are, btw, the two elements I don't like the most and was never using before unless I was forced to because no other elemental spell was dealing a decent amount of dmg.

Fortunate that both elements come with effects that increase it's own damage, such as DoT and Elemental resistance down. So your concerns about damage are moot.

But seriously, you're complaining that the elements on conjurer are not aesthetically pleasing to you? This isn't Fashion Fantasy.

There's no variety left, and if I just think about how greatly they changed the difference in dmg of using the element a mob was weak against vs using one it was resistent to, the future for CON looks like a nightmare.

Actually there is MORE variety. The primary gripe was that classes were fairly exchangeable and that there was little unique between them. What you're complaining about isn't that there's no variety in nukes, it's that you thought conjurer was going to be Black Mage. That's it. Nothing is preventing you from taking up Thamaturge either.

The combos here do different things depending on the element. Sure, Thamaturge/Black Mage has more, but you're not without your own choices here. They're just not as gawdawefuly huge compared to a Melee Jobs now.

Also, lore-wise, it makes no sense CON only has two elements left.
It also makes no sense that THM, who never cared about elements before, now got most of them.
Or PUG, which wasn't even a magic based class to begin with.

Fatal error in your logic: Assuming Lore is immovable while the mechanics are fair game to change.

Earth and Wind make good forest elements (Water perhaps should be included in that, but we don't know where Water is going right now.) And Conjurer, lore wise, was always about more of a peaceful commune with nature than a violent burst of magical energy.

Thamaturge's 'image' is far more in line with Black Mage than Conjurer (which honestly held more ties with Summoner in my opinion. The mechanics never really agreed with the lore here.)

So this isn't an argument about lore so much of your view of it, and your flawed opinion that lore should not change with the mechanics. None of these hold weight.

You're free to quit. But your reasoning to do so without trying it out first is fairly shallow.

[Orophen]

Long post here. Close your eyes if you don't like LENGTH. You 2D monster.

I'm looking at the changes and I see that they have split the elemental nukes between THM and CNJ. I can see why they made these changes, and I don't think this is the end of it to be honest.

It's true that Conjurer seems to lost a majority of its elemental nukes. They're left with Wind and Earth offensive magic. But Conjurer was never an "offensive" class lore-wise anyway. As long as their abilities make use of the elements, it doesn't matter if they have nukes or not. They could've made every single CON spell a buff or heal. As long as it's element based, it still adheres to the lore. Healing spells can also just as easily be Water elemental spells. Although I'm not seeing much in the way of Fire and Thunder element here. But this is only up to level 50. CON could easily pick up other elemental nukes as it gains in levels. Or they can pick up other spells and abilities that are elemental in nature. Even if Earth and Wind remain the only nukes usable by CON, nothing is wrong or out of place here.

About THM, well, the lore has obviously been messed with here. And most of us realized it needed to be messed with if it was going to take on a BLM role. What's more annoying is that it's lost most of its enfeebles. but as has already been pointed out, enfeebling spells/abilities have been spread out among all the classes. So it's not like enfeebling has been removed completely. ARC can Stun, Blind, and Bind. CON can Heavy. LNC can Stun. PUG can Blind, Stop, Slow, and Stun. MRD can Heavy, Weaken Attack, and Amnesia. GLD can stun. And just about everyone and their mom can DoT. So I think we're pretty much well covered for now

But I know what you're thinking. BLM only get 3 elements? What the heavenly hellhole is the deal with that? Well, to begin with, only a handful of FF games ever gave BLM more than Thunder, Fire, and Blizzard. And sometimes later on you got Quake. If they are going more traditional with these jobs, 3 out of 4 so far ain't a bad record. And since the description says THM/BLM uses 6 elements, I have a feeling the others will show up. Just later than those who have played FFXI before are used to. It's not terribad to NOT have every element at your disposal from the very start, when most of you only pick 2 or 3 nukes and stick with them for all of your playing career to begin with. It was even worse in FFXI, when you had every element under the sun but only Thunder and Blizzard were worth using in the end.

[Atoli]

Because I got tired of people adding me to a party as CNJ just so I can heal. I don't ALWAYS want to heal.

Grats, now you won't be added to a party for ANYTHING but healing as a CON.
Seeing as you have THM close to 50 too though, I bet you don't mind.

[Starlord]

I seriously cant believe people are Defending these Spell Changes..

Yoshida blatantly lied to us by saying the way we play a class will not change.

Worse yet he has done more damage to this games lore than he will ever be able to fix.

On top of that he has completely back tracked on his promise to make this game More Final Fantasy like by distorting all of the "Jobs" he was bringing in supposedly for that purpose.

These Ability changes are awful.

His unnecessary need to restrict the number of abilities a player gains to the number they can equip has sevearly undermined the Capabilities of Almost every class.

There is no Excuse for Gladiator to be Fully Defensive, Paladin is the Tank

There is No reason for Puglist to have elemental skills, they will only gimp it's DMG output against 75% of the enemies.

There is no reason for LNC to become a Glass Cannon

There is no Excuse for completely disregarding Con lore and ripping out all of there offensive capabilities.

MOST IMPORTANTLY

There is Absolutly No Viable Reason to Restrict a MAGE to 15 Skills(Not even 15 spells) when there are Over 100 spells in the history of Final Fantasy. This is Unacceptable. Every Mage should have atleast 30 Spells. They should NOT be able to have them all ready at all times. They SHOULD have a diverse aray of skill that to not directly conflict with the Lore behind their Class.

Jumping to conclusions, off that bat before the patch is even out yet. Makes anyones speculation/opinion/ assumed fact Invalid to you actually play the patch, That includes my Opinions and such as well. This happens every patch that gets annouced before coming out.. then when its out.. people are "okay" with it and move on... this is no different.