[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Holland]

the whole thing in general is kind of messy. i would have rathered they scrap the classes at this point when its really is pretty much just the job (except bard..that was a shift and a half). I never really loved the system we have now as it is, but w/e, people will use what they like, the more choices the better i guess?

The thing is, back in the day, there was no class indentity at all, it was just a mash of skills that did not matter what weapon you had equipped for melees and mages. We asked the Dev team to give us some semblance of Class indentity and the request was pretty much unanimous.

I am glad for these changes, classes have indentity now and are able to form up light parties still.

[Spellbinder]

The thing is, back in the day, there was no class indentity at all, it was just a mash of skills that did not matter what weapon you had equipped for melees and mages. We asked the Dev team to give us some semblance of Class indentity and the request was pretty much unanimous.

I am glad for these changes, classes have indentity now and are able to form up light parties still.

But why use your class when your job fills the role so much better now?

[Betelgeuzah]

But why use your class when your job fills the role so much better now?

Because you don't always have enough people to utilize the roles needed.

[Sephr]

But why use your class when your job fills the role so much better now?

Why are you using blanket terms to speak for the whole game? We were told from the very first announcement that this system was designed so that people could exceed in certain roles for more challenging content in large groups, whilst people who wanted small-group and solo content would still be good at it with the original classes.

That's what it's for. In small-group content, classes will often be more useful.

Honestly, this total resistance to change that really shouldn't be such a big deal is quite confusing, people need to realise they're effectively playing a beta. Within that beta, people requested -substantial changes to the systems in place-. If you were hoping for everything to stay the same, you're probably playing the wrong game.

[Spellbinder]

Why are you using blanket terms to speak for the whole game? We were told from the very first announcement that this system was designed so that people could exceed in certain roles for more challenging content in large groups, whilst people who wanted small-group and solo content would still be good at it with the original classes.

I'm well aware what the purpose of these jobs are. I asked that question to make a point, because I know someone is going to ask that question.

Edit:

As I've been saying before, yes the Jobs are "specialized roles" but the classes themselves have also been specialized. If the only difference in the end is that the Jobs are essentially classes but can fulfill those roles better, who's to say people aren't going to start getting uppity and refusing people as classes and demand jobs even small group content?

Just trying to get people to consider possible reactions to game changes. No need to try and berate me for offering what will potentially be an opposing view.

[Betelgeuzah]

It's not surprising that people would think that Jobs are a direct upgrade of the Class because the patch teaser tells nothing about the restrictions imposed on Jobs. We don't even know if the Job makes use of all the actions of it's class or if they get to use some actions from the second class they derive from.

[Holland]

But why use your class when your job fills the role so much better now?

This has been answered by Betel, but I think Jobs will be more restricted as to what abilities they can use, for example, a BLM might only have access to DD spells and no restorative ones. So for a low man group where every cure will count, classes will be superior.

Just by looking at the Job abilities they seem to be overpowered in contrast to classes but having only access to that type of abilities will put them at a disadvantage when dealing with different situations, just like FFXI.

[Spellbinder]

It's not surprising that people would think that Jobs are a direct upgrade of the Class because the patch teaser tells nothing about the restrictions imposed on Jobs. We don't even know if the Job makes use of all the actions of it's class or if they get to use some actions from the second class they derive from.

That's pretty much the point I'm driving at. My fear is that the community is going to simply assume Jobs are a direct upgrade and give classes the boot regardless of what the content is.

[Betelgeuzah]

That's pretty much the point I'm driving at. My fear is that the community is going to simply assume Jobs are a direct upgrade and give classes the boot regardless of what the content is.

Well that wouldn't make much sense now would it? I mean, if PLD sucks at dealing damage, and you are in a group with a WHM, why not switch to GLA and CNJ instead of having a healer and a tank that can't get anything done by themselves?

Even if you looked for a DPS job, for the content in question pure healer or tank might be overkill. People tend to aim for efficiency, and in this case classes would get things done more efficiently.

Further, people like to be DPS. Rare are those who would rather solely heal, tank or buff all the time.

[Spellbinder]

Well that wouldn't make much sense now would it? I mean, if PLD sucks at dealing damage, and you are in a group with a WHM, why not switch to GLA and CNJ instead of having a healer and a tank that can't get anything done by themselves?

Does it make sense? No, but the community is a very fickled beast.

I can already see it now.

WHM & PLD

PLD: Uh... this is kinda tough, why don't I just switch to Gladiator or something?
WHM: Don't be silly, lets just go look for a Warrior, you stay and tank.
PLD: ...