[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Firon]

They haven't said anything of the sort until now.

CON>WHM is not CON=WHM. I have also played enough FFs to know that FF does not strictly stick to class rules. I expected the same here, as per Yoshi's statement that nothing fundamental would change.

And a rumor matters because....why?

You are wrong about that everything since 1.18 has pointed cnj = whm

Edit: i would like to know what has changed about cnj they can still nuke, cure, and enhance.

Actually Aero and Earth Spells, traditionally belong to WHM, not BLM.

Water is a BLU spell in most FF.

BLM always had Fire, Thunder and Blizzard as Elemental Magic Spells.

FFXI was the exception to this.

Yes this correct FF 11 changed what spells blm learned,10, 11 was the 2 games that changed what spells blm learned

[Chezen]

You are wrong about that everything since 1.18 has pointed cnj = whm

You are missing the point. Conjurer and White mage are not supposed to be the same. No class was supposed to be the same as the job it's linked to. That is what Yoshi-P said the classes and jobs would be. Linked but separate.

If there is any role conjurer currently resembles, it's red mage. That doesn't "point" to anything. Not that it matters. The only thing that matters is the official posts from square, not the rumors people fuss over.

Note: It's morning and I haven't had my coffee yet.

[AmyRae]

You are missing the point. Conjurer and White mage are not supposed to be the same. No class was supposed to be the same as the job it's linked to. That is what Yoshi-P said the classes and jobs would be. Linked but separate.

If there is any role conjurer currently resembles, it's red mage. That doesn't "point" to anything. Not that it matters. The only thing that matters is the official posts from square, not the rumors people fuss over.

Note: It's morning and I haven't had my coffee yet.

I'm not reading it that way.

For example, you'll notice that all job weaponskills combo off the related class's weaponskills. It would appear that when you switch to your job, you have all the skills of your class, but you can do extra things above and beyond what your class is capable of (in exchange for forgoing cross-class abilities, so there's still value in using your class instead of your job as well).

It actually makes a lot of sense this way. While soloing or in low-man groups, flexibility is an asset. Being able to perform multiple functions works better than specialization in those situations. If all you could do was cure, but not damage, you wouldn't get anywhere.

But in light parties and full parties (as the nomenclature goes), specialists work better. You don't want someone good at healing, you want the best healer possible. Same goes for tanking. And damage dealing. That's where jobs come in, removing the flexibility, but accentuating the specialty.

[Chezen]

I'm not reading it that way.

For example, you'll notice that all job weaponskills combo off the related class's weaponskills.

Jobs
The job system - that series-defining trademark - will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV (details such as specific jobs TBA). Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.
Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.

In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded.

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...print?p=138995

As you pointed out, what Matsui outlined is not what happened. The rest of your post, I never made issue with. Classes are for soloing, jobs are for parties, that was made clear from the beginning. While all things are subject to change, not once did they say, to my recollection, that it was changing.

My point, which seems to be difficult to grasp by many , is that it was not necesary to change CON to "make it fit" to white mage. Or for that matter, THM to make it fit to black mage. If they were "classes" of themselves like they said they would be, they would have their own skill sets.

Whether or not this way "is better", or whether or not I might like it in of itself, that I am not making issue with at all. The class/job looks interesting. However, conjurer is my favorite class (don't let my gladiator status fool you), and I am losing it, apparently. So yes, I have major concerns about that. I want more information that I might be able to "build" a class that plays exactly like CON plays now. By looking at the skills sheet, the answer is "no".

[Zanfire]

You are missing the point. Conjurer and White mage are not supposed to be the same. No class was supposed to be the same as the job it's linked to. That is what Yoshi-P said the classes and jobs would be. Linked but separate.

If there is any role conjurer currently resembles, it's red mage. That doesn't "point" to anything. Not that it matters. The only thing that matters is the official posts from square, not the rumors people fuss over.

Note: It's morning and I haven't had my coffee yet.

they all seems like that (with the exception of bard) already. and clearly the devs built it that way so wouldnt what they build be their intent? its "supposed" to be whatever they make it.

[Spellbinder]

You are missing the point. Conjurer and White mage are not supposed to be the same. No class was supposed to be the same as the job it's linked to. That is what Yoshi-P said the classes and jobs would be. Linked but separate.

If there is any role conjurer currently resembles, it's red mage. That doesn't "point" to anything. Not that it matters. The only thing that matters is the official posts from square, not the rumors people fuss over.

Note: It's morning and I haven't had my coffee yet.

I'm going to have to agree on this here. The only Dev comments I can find specifically regarding this are from an interview where they stated that the Jobs were supposed to be specialized roles, but the classes have also been specialized in the process of creating the Jobs and, in my humble opinion, defeats the purpose of creating Jobs in the first place.

[Zanfire]

I'm going to have to agree on this here. The only Dev comments I can find specifically regarding this are from an interview where they stated that the Jobs were supposed to be specialized roles, but the classes have also been specialized in the process of creating the Jobs and, in my humble opinion, defeats the purpose of creating Jobs in the first place.

the whole thing in general is kind of messy. i would have rathered they scrap the classes at this point when its really is pretty much just the job (except bard..that was a shift and a half). I never really loved the system we have now as it is, but w/e, people will use what they like, the more choices the better i guess?

[Spellbinder]

the whole thing in general is kind of messy. i would have rathered they scrap the classes at this point when its really is pretty much just the job (except bard..that was a shift and a half). I never really loved the system we have now as it is, but w/e, people will use what they like, the more choices the better i guess?

I also agree on just scrapping classes at this point, but sadly its not going to happen. As for more choices? More choices is always a good thing, but you and I both know the community is going to dictate what "choices" people have to join a party.

[Holland]

the whole thing in general is kind of messy. i would have rathered they scrap the classes at this point when its really is pretty much just the job (except bard..that was a shift and a half). I never really loved the system we have now as it is, but w/e, people will use what they like, the more choices the better i guess?

The thing is, back in the day, there was no class indentity at all, it was just a mash of skills that did not matter what weapon you had equipped for melees and mages. We asked the Dev team to give us some semblance of Class indentity and the request was pretty much unanimous.

I am glad for these changes, classes have indentity now and are able to form up light parties still.

[Spellbinder]

The thing is, back in the day, there was no class indentity at all, it was just a mash of skills that did not matter what weapon you had equipped for melees and mages. We asked the Dev team to give us some semblance of Class indentity and the request was pretty much unanimous.

I am glad for these changes, classes have indentity now and are able to form up light parties still.

But why use your class when your job fills the role so much better now?