[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Kiote]

CNJ mainly cures now. It will mainly cure after the patch. No change.
THM use roughly the same nukes over and over. They will have more variety after the patch. They still nuke. No change.
GLA isn't used for anything but tanking now. After the patch, they will still be tanking. No change.
PGL is used as a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will have the OPTION of adding elemental damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
LNC is a melee DD right now. After the patch, they will do more damage. They are still a melee DD. No change.
MRD is a hybrid tank/DD right now. After the patch, they will still be a hybrid tank/DD. No change.

The mechanics of the class are changing. The fundamentals of the class are not. They are adjusting the mechanics of class skills. Not how the class plays.

YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

[Arcell]

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

Yeah, right around the same time I noticed that 50 isn't going to be our max level forever and with more levels comes more skills, spells and abilities.

[DeadRiser]

YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

Lol how can you assume so much without even playing it yet? How do you know they aren't changing how elements damage do to mobs that are weak against it? If I'm not mistaken, we are also getting stat redistribution to an extent, so who's to say you can't focus on one type of element?

I mean sheesh, you just keep b*tching
just keep b*tching
just keep just keep just keep b*tching
What do we do when we don't like change? B*tchinggg B*tchinggg

[Kiote]

Lol how can you assume so much without even playing it yet? How do you know they aren't changing how elements damage do to mobs that are weak against it? If I'm not mistaken, we are also getting stat redistribution to an extent, so who's to say you can't focus on one type of element?

I mean sheesh, you just keep b*tching
just keep b*tching
just keep just keep just keep b*tching
What do we do when we don't like change? B*tchinggg B*tchinggg

Are you Dumb or do you not realize that the point of these forums is to give feed back on the Game?

I think these changes are awful. I'm not going to keep that from the Devs. They have a right to know these changes are awful.

I honestly believe that implementing these class changes in this way will do irreparable harm to this game. MMO players these days are lazy. They are not going to play an MMO in which soloing is a chore.

[Alerith]

YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

How has the solo style of CNJ really changed? You still have nukes. Nuke, cure, nuke, cure. Your means of soloing has not changed.

Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

The only "reactive" weaponskill Gladiator had was Phalanx I/II. The only real damaging abilities they have are Riot Blade (Which shouldn't be used as a DD WS) and Circle Slash I/II. These are not definitions of the fundamentals of the job. Tanking is.

Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

The combo systems negates your entire "no tactics" argument. And it's good that they don't have high defense capabilites, or else we get into the problem XI had where any melee job could tank and the actual tanking classes are passed over. Also, LNC is still retaining it's class fundamental of "Damage Dealer"

Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

Maybe back in the day when mage jobs could solo anything becaue of Emulate, but since then CNJ has been a primarily healing class. The fundamental job of healing and party support has not changed.

Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

I believe some of the spells have additional effects as well. And really? You used Absorb Attack/Accuracy/Evasion to boost your mages stats?

Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

They are gaining even MORE control abilities when the job updates. Also, if you don't want to shoot an arrow, turn away, close your action bar, enter passive mode, or (if it's implemented as such) disable the toggle for auto-shooting. And Archer is still retaining it's fundamental role as a ranged damage dealer.

MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

You should read up on a Monk ability from XI called "Formless Strikes". Have you considered the possibility that besides elemental weakness, there may be enemies who take more damage from magic attacks? Take less physical damage? Have a physical barrier that causes only elemental attacks to deal damage?

You can still use every single job in a solo situation and light parties. Hell, you can use all of them effectivley in a full party, raids and bosses until jobs come along.

You're arguing a point that has no validity. The fundamentals of the classes are remaining intact and the means of performing that fundamental purpose have simply been adjusted.



EDIT: Also, it was mentioned classes are for Solo AND Light Party play. Not just solo.

[Orophen]

YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

You're oversimplifying what these class revisions have to offer. They are far more complex and tactical classes then you're making them out to be.

Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

They had paltry offensive skills to begin with. With the guard changes that have already taken place Phalanx was a shadow of what it once was before, and it was the only Reactive WS they had. All of their offensive ability was in their weapons skills which all basically did the same damage at lower levels. Other offensive ability came from what they could cross class. They still have offensive weapon skills in the adjusted list, and using combos increases their damage. And they now have MORE options in regards to reactive abilities. They also still have shield bash and can stun in place of Riot Blade pacification effect. The ability to shut down enemy abilities is still there as well.

Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

Lancer is still tactical and strategic. You can increase your TP through the use of an ability, increase the damage of your next attack. And reduce the recast of your next weaponskill. Your auto attacks can steal HP. You lose out on an attack speed ability, being able to transfer enmity, and you're obvious weaker in defense. But you can manipulate your TP and weapon skill recasts in order to initiate combos more frequently, and take advantage of the effects offered by those combos. In place of Diversion you can absorb HP from an attack directly, which can be boosted by depleting the effects of one of your other abilities.

Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

CON still specializes in mitigating damage by healing, because healing is and always has been a method of doing so. They can also generate a barrier around a target that prevents damage. Similar to Stoneskin. Their damage mitigation potential is still intact. They also have a version of protect. They have their own nukes that can inflict additional effects. They also have an ability that can increase their magic attack at the cost of healing ability. So now CON is a well-balanced class that can switch from support to nuking when the situation arises. Wow. That's pretty much what they were before.

Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

This one is true. They are a more destructive class now. And all of their nukes have additional effects. They can still enfeeble through their damage spells, although the enfeebles aren't the same as before. They no longer have absorbs. or Sac. Or dedicated enfeeble spells. But if BLM can solo in FFXI, this new class should be able to do it as well. I have no comment on whether changing this class so drastically is a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe to those who already leveled it and like the class as it is, it's a bad thing. Outside of that, I can't see the issue until we actually see the class in action.

Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

Archer's abilities before focused on either reducing enmity, increasing accuracy, or increasing damage with a few utility abilities thrown in. The new changes do the EXACT SAME THING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. The only difference is they get an auto attack. Which as an ability means it can be turned on or off. Even if you were a monkey, you should be able to control what you're doing just fine.

MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

You won't know how useless or non-useless the elemental attacks are until we see them in action.

Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

This is true. Classes don't have access to a water nuking spell. Yet.