PLEASE have some sort of balance in PotD? Introduce some sort of checkpoint system.

[MomomiMomi]

How are mandatory 51-100 floors even remotely challenging? It's FATEs difficulty trash mobs which should be skippable. Makes no sense to waste 2-3 hours every time on this.

They're not, but that's not what permadeath is about. It's about adding weight to your choices. Every move could be your last, and you fear dying because of the loss of progress.

51-100 adds to that weight.

[ErryK]

I didn't say SE could do something about our individual ISP issues, just that as a developer they should have been conscious to those issues when putting together floors 101+. Having progress reset because of a ingame bugs, is something that should also be considered even with how rare they are.

Fair enough, my example is flawed in the sense that you cannot do anything about the ISP failing, but it is not SE's job to make sure you retain your progress because of a DC. The game works around having perfect conditions in its mechanics, it's the same reason why the LB bar resets if someone DC's. And asking them to save your progress because of an ingame glitch is asking a little bit much, it's like asking EA to rollback your progress on a Titanfall Tournament or something to that effect because the game froze on you.

How are mandatory 51-100 floors even remotely challenging? It's FATEs difficulty trash mobs which should be skippable. Makes no sense to waste 2-3 hours every time on this.

Die to a pack of mobs on floors 91-100? Start again

[BakaChin]

{Grit}{Goad}

Working as intended

[TaleraRistain]

Tedium doesn't equal challenge. The EverQuest devs learned that when people fled their game like rats on a sinking ship when better options came along. This was enjoyable content that had options on how it could be tackled in regards to partying up or facing the challenge of a match and working with what you got matched with. Taking those options away just makes it not worth doing, like the manufactured gate in regards to Diadem content. I imagine this will go the same way and I only hope they start paying attention to the number of things they put in the game that people may try for a bit but ultimately abandon. This is the sort of casual disregard that is going to make players leave.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Fair enough, my example is flawed in the sense that you cannot do anything about the ISP failing, but it is not SE's job to make sure you retain your progress because of a DC. The game works around having perfect conditions in its mechanics, it's the same reason why the LB bar resets if someone DC's.And asking them to save your progress because of an ingame glitch is asking a little bit much, it's like asking EA to rollback your progress on a Titanfall Tournament or something to that effect because the game froze on you.

Two key points here

Point one
The game works around players playing PotD with 100% skill and effort on 101+ you cannot at anytime prep for a dc ever, it is not a game mechanic, a tank can't tank dc issues, a healer can't esuna, leeches, or exalted detriment the datacenter or ISP of it's connection debuff, nor can a BRD wardens paean the connection debuff, and dps can't dps fake traffic flooding the server in the event of a ddos. Connection issues aren't game mechanics, never ever in history would a boss be built around players fighting the server or cable companies to ensure they beat said content. Developing content based on such a uncontrollable factor is down right idotic and plain ridiculous. Mechanics are things players can control in front of them and adjust accordingly, something we learn from in order to obtain a common goal.

Point two
Official game tournaments can be restarted if game breaking bugs are discovered, here is a excerpt taken from the official Call of Duty tournament rules:

"e. Game Breaking Bugs. If a Player finds that a Game Breaking Bug is occurring, they should notify a Tournament Official immediately. If the Tournament Official is able to confirm that a game breaking bug has occurred, they will determine whether or not the affect Round/Game should be restarted, the Game win should be awarded to a Team, or the conditions under which the Round/Game should be resume. List of Game Breaking Bug below:

i. Character hasn't respawned after the proper amount of time.

ii. Character isn't properly arming or disarming the bomb.

iii. Character isn't properly picking up or capturing the flag.

iv. Character isn't properly able to Aim Down Sights (ADS).

v. The Uplink Satellite hasn't reset after 15 seconds of being unreachable"

https://www.callofduty.com/esports/s...mps-2016-Rules

Two rules involving mechanical issues that restart a tournament match at EVO

"Once replacement equipment is obtained, the player is given the rest of the round to configure their buttons and test the new equipment. If the player gains an undue advantage by doing so (e.g. charging an abundance of super meter), they must forfeit the Game.
A player may opt to switch out equipment between Games at no penalty. When this occurs, the player will be given ample time to configure his buttons before the next Game begins."

http://evo.shoryuken.com/tournament-rules/#equipment

A nice little bit on Madden tournaments

"301.9 Disconnects and Other Stoppages in play In the event of a disconnect or stoppage in play, it is the responsibility of both competitors to reach out to tournament admins for a resolution. Disconnections are not automatic grounds for a loss unless determined by an administrator or if one competitor explicitly forfeits.

If a participant unintentionally disconnects from the game and is not able to reconnect to the game, then tournament officials will determine if the game state can be restored to a similar point. If the game cannot be restored, then the tournament administrator will use their judgement on how to restart the game.

301.9a Example: If a participant intentionally disconnects from the game and is not able to reconnect to the game, then a loss will be given to the participant. It is at the sole discretion of the tournament administrator as to what constitutes an intentional disconnect.

301.9b Example: A player unintentionally disconnects at the 2:20 mark of the 3rd quarter with possession of the ball on the 50-yard line. The score of the game was 20-14. A tournament administrator instructs the game to resume in the 1st quarter with the implied score to be 20-14 and the implied quarter to be the 3rd. The clock will be run down to 2:20 with possession established as close to possible around the 50 yard line. The competitors will play until halftime to determine the winner."

http://www.maddenchallenge.com/rules

So you really want to sit here and tell me SE couldn't do anything about resetting progress due to bugs or dcs? But Madden, EVO, and Call of Duty can and do in the middle of tournaments where actual money is on the line? If you or anyone can sit there and tell me that losing because of dc issues is still acceptable when a joke of a game like Madden let's it players resume due to connection issues, read that a million times MADDEN AND EA HAD THE BRAINS TO UNDERSTAND DISCONNECTIONS SHOULDN'T DETERMINE OUTCOMES OF GAMES. But good old SE racking in that 15 a month can put out content with such a flawed system and people defend it?

[Neophyte]

I see this new feature dying soon if every time it takes 9-10 hours for a group just to reach 'savage' floors for a chance to clear 200. Already hard to find people because it's so tedious to grind trash from 51.

Wow, so for 5*10 floors (51-100) with 5*60 = 300 minutes timelimit you need 9*60 = 540 minutes on average.

Even 100 floors don't need of that long, lol, 600 minutes are max. (that is, if you're doing it solo and kill the last boss at 1s left). Cut it to half, maybe.

I didn't said 101. TC said 180 took him 9+ hours. Anything else before that isn't hard.

That's still pretty long. Also in my opinion one try per week to beat level 200 is ok though, and can be done with reasonable playtime.
Starting at 100 would make getting gold horde items way to simple, also upgrading you weapon towards +99/+99, also preparing with good items ("Oh, only 1 Manticore/Witching and 1 Sight in floors 100-110, let's wipe and get better prepared for the hard stuff"), also lowering the "risk" of every action.

[Neophyte]

Two key points here

Point one
The game works around players playing PotD with 100% skill and effort on 101+ you cannot at anytime prep for a dc ever, it is not a game mechanic, a tank can't tank dc issues, a healer can't esuna, leeches, or exalted detriment the datacenter or ISP of it's connection debuff, nor can a BRD wardens paean the connection debuff, and dps can't dps fake traffic flooding the server in the event of a ddos. Connection issues aren't game mechanics, never ever in history would a boss be built around players fighting the server or cable companies to ensure they beat said content. Developing content based on such a uncontrollable factor is down right idotic and plain ridiculous. Mechanics are things players can control in front of them and adjust accordingly, something we learn from in order to obtain a common goal.

Point two
Official game tournaments can be restarted if game breaking bugs are discovered, here is a excerpt taken from the official Call of Duty tournament rules:

"e. Game Breaking Bugs. If a Player finds that a Game Breaking Bug is occurring, they should notify a Tournament Official immediately. If the Tournament Official is able to confirm that a game breaking bug has occurred, they will determine whether or not the affect Round/Game should be restarted, the Game win should be awarded to a Team, or the conditions under which the Round/Game should be resume. List of Game Breaking Bug below:

i. Character hasn't respawned after the proper amount of time.

ii. Character isn't properly arming or disarming the bomb.

iii. Character isn't properly picking up or capturing the flag.

iv. Character isn't properly able to Aim Down Sights (ADS).

v. The Uplink Satellite hasn't reset after 15 seconds of being unreachable"

https://www.callofduty.com/esports/s...mps-2016-Rules

Two rules involving mechanical issues that restart a tournament match at EVO

"Once replacement equipment is obtained, the player is given the rest of the round to configure their buttons and test the new equipment. If the player gains an undue advantage by doing so (e.g. charging an abundance of super meter), they must forfeit the Game.
A player may opt to switch out equipment between Games at no penalty. When this occurs, the player will be given ample time to configure his buttons before the next Game begins."

http://evo.shoryuken.com/tournament-rules/#equipment

A nice little bit on Madden tournaments

"301.9 Disconnects and Other Stoppages in play In the event of a disconnect or stoppage in play, it is the responsibility of both competitors to reach out to tournament admins for a resolution. Disconnections are not automatic grounds for a loss unless determined by an administrator or if one competitor explicitly forfeits.

If a participant unintentionally disconnects from the game and is not able to reconnect to the game, then tournament officials will determine if the game state can be restored to a similar point. If the game cannot be restored, then the tournament administrator will use their judgement on how to restart the game.

301.9a Example: If a participant intentionally disconnects from the game and is not able to reconnect to the game, then a loss will be given to the participant. It is at the sole discretion of the tournament administrator as to what constitutes an intentional disconnect.

301.9b Example: A player unintentionally disconnects at the 2:20 mark of the 3rd quarter with possession of the ball on the 50-yard line. The score of the game was 20-14. A tournament administrator instructs the game to resume in the 1st quarter with the implied score to be 20-14 and the implied quarter to be the 3rd. The clock will be run down to 2:20 with possession established as close to possible around the 50 yard line. The competitors will play until halftime to determine the winner."

http://www.maddenchallenge.com/rules

So you really want to sit here and tell me SE couldn't do anything about resetting progress due to bugs or dcs? But Madden, EVO, and Call of Duty can and do in the middle of tournaments where actual money is on the line? If you or anyone can sit there and tell me that losing because of dc issues is still acceptable when a joke of a game like Madden let's it players resume due to connection issues, read that a million times MADDEN AND EA HAD THE BRAINS TO UNDERSTAND DISCONNECTIONS SHOULDN'T DETERMINE OUTCOMES OF GAMES. But good old SE racking in that 15 a month can put out content with such a flawed system and people defend it?

Yeah, becaue real life tournaments with physical prizes in one Location (LAN Environment) with physically present "tournament admins" are almost the same as MMORPGs. Your point is very weak.
And the online elimination at madden was limited to only 128 players, if not they would have not been able to suggest that "both competitors reach out to tournament admins for a resolution" if problems occur.

But yeah, maybe SE should add PotD admins, who examine every dubious wipe and let you start at the same floor, if it was a DC. I assume the sub will raise to 100$/month then to afford those 20,000 admins.


How does your wonderful Madden manage DCs in the mentioned "Draft Champions Ranked Ladders" where the 128 players who are allowed to participate in the Online Elimination came from?
-> They don't. As in almost any other competitive online game you lose if you DC. If you DC regulary you won't get high in ranked ladder systems. Deal with it.

[Paladinleeds]

snip

'course I'll defend it. When there's physically available tournament admins around they can do stuff like that. But standard CoD matches where it's just one online player vs another with no tournament admin in sight, and you DC? Well suck it up buttercup, because you'll still rack up a loss. If you're DCing that much that having to restart every time is a problem, then maybe you need to have a go at your ISP for having rubbish internet.

Oh, and for the record, I face this DC issue regularly, though not due to the internet going down, because my PC has a habit of freezing up completely (like, it just hangs, all sound stops working, all mouse/keyboard input stops being processed, the physical "reset" button to force a restart of the desktop doesn't work, etc), but every time it happens I just swear and move on. But it's going to the point of being enough of a problem for me that I'm actually getting my computer fixed, like you need to look at if you're getting constant DC issues.

[Zojha]

When there's physically available tournament admins around they can do stuff like that.

Technically, you can also resolve things like that automatically to a degree. Many PvP games simply have a "pause game" feature to deal with DCs, sometimes even automatic ones. It's a simple solution, especially in premades, where someone who's not DC'd can hit the pause button when they notice a DC. People aren't gaining any advantage from being frozen in time either, so intentionally DC'ing to save anything is out.

[Paladinleeds]

Technically, you can also resolve things like that automatically to a degree. Many PvP games simply have a "pause game" feature to deal with DCs, sometimes even automatic ones. It's a simple solution, especially in premades, where someone who's not DC'd can hit the pause button when they notice a DC. People aren't gaining any advantage from being frozen in time either, so intentionally DC'ing to save anything is out.

I'm willing to concede that I hadn't thought of that. Though there is one way they could gain an advantage from pausing time. Give them a chance to discuss and readjust their strategy. Since if I'm doing POTD Savage mode, chances are we're gonna be on voice comms to discuss things.