Pvp Behavior Is Embarrasing

[MrPresident]

This is pretty funny lol. The people that are being "bullied" away are usually under performing. The ones who find themselves being constantly harassed or having vitriol thrown at them are almost always constantly under performing. So how exactly would they be competition?

Not really. There's no rank requirement for being an asshole. And just because someone isn't going God mode in their first ever match, doesn't mean it's impossible they'd ever improve and move up the rankings.

[Februs]

Not really. There's no rank requirement for being an asshole. And just because someone isn't going God mode in their first ever match, doesn't mean it's impossible they'd ever improve and move up the rankings.

What someone can be and what they are do not equate to the same thing.

It's entirely possible for under-preforming players to turn into seasoned vets, but until that moment they are nothing but a liability to their team and fodder to the enemy. No seasoned player looks at a rookie and sees competition. As long as that player is under-preforming, then they're either a stepping stone for rank boosting, or a dead weight for point decay. This is especially the case if the rookie is under-preforming by a large margin. If a player is pushing dps/healing numbers that would be considered embarrassing in even the easiest of PvE circumstances, then it's no surprise when the team turns on them. Some of the hate might be overly harsh, but no one improves by being babied in a competitive setting.

The bottom line is that there is no dead-carry in PvP. Almost every player at the top of the PvP mountain saw their fair share of hate along the way. If no one told them that they sucked when they preformed badly, or they just backed out and cried about it when someone was mean to them, then they would have never made it to where they are.

[Vaeria]

^ This post should probably be on the main gate leading into Wolves Den. Blunt truth, though rough to the touch, makes for an exceptional foundation to build upon.

[kensatsu]

Veterans players insulting noobs or under performing players is not the only toxic players we can encounter, i already see something like a completely new Melee not doing a lot of damage not cooperate with the other dps insulting an healer.
And when this happen it's maybe funny but not for the healer not deserving any insult from an under performing player.
But who care about insult and negative thinking ? it's a problem to give credits and focus on something like this, it will just get anybody to negative thinking too, care of this if it point a fail, but otherwise no...

[Zojha]

This is especially the case if the rookie is under-preforming by a large margin.

If a person is under-performing, especially by a large margin, that's the matchmaking at fault, not the rookie. The rookie did not ask to be put with players completely out of his league. It is entirely unfair and plainly put rotten to lash out at a person solely because he got put into the wrong match by an automated system, because by doing so, you're projecting your hate towards an inanimate object onto a living person. There is no defense to that. If you do it, you are an arsehole. Full stop.

And if you want to retort claiming that people should learn before stepping into ranked, you are not just an arsehole, but also an idiot. The very point of a ranking system is to rank people in accordance to their skill - no matter where that skill lies, whether you're at the bottom or the top of the barrel. Finding out where you stand, that is the point of letting yourself be ranked. Where exactly you stand has absolutely no bearing on that purpose and if a player is bad, it's the ranking that should tell them, not other players. That's its purpose after all.

And if you now think that the ranking system we have sucks for that purpose, you'd be right - it does. It needs to show everyone's standing and it needs to go into every direction - no more point loss protection at unranked. Moreover, the points you win/gain should solely be decided by your and the enemy teams rating, tiers should not matter at all. An even match should always result in an equal amount of points gained as lost. The system as is sucks and it sucks because they tied rewards to it, thereby giving it a distributional and incentive function as well, which compromise its actual purpose.

If you want to vent your hate, don't do it on the players, do it on the system.

[Februs]

If a person is under-performing, especially by a large margin, that's the matchmaking at fault, not the rookie.

Strictly speaking, you're not wrong. The matchmaking in this game is awful. I don't think anyone is going to argue against that, but unfortunately that system does not excuse a completely clueless player.

No matter how you look at it, SE designed PvP in this game as end-game content. You have to be at 60 to even participate, so that's not debatable. Between levels 1-60, there are 47 dungeons that a new player could, and should, have run multiple times before coming into Feast. On top of that, there are around 25 Trials (not including extreme content) and 30 raids (not including savage content). Any player who has climbed their way to 60 through all, or even most, of that content without at least learning the fundamentals of their job cannot hide behind the abysmal matchmaking as an excuse for their poor play. That kind of thing doesn't fly in PvE, and it doesn't fly here. Rookies might not ask to be put into matches with players far above them in skill, but they still chose to queue. At the very least, they should have taken the time to know what they're queuing for and not expect a dead-carry. That same attitude is applied to ANY and EVERY other end-game content this game has to offer, yet only in PvP is it considered unacceptable. Quite frankly, there's no defense to that.

There's also nothing idiotic about expecting a player to learn what they're getting into before jumping in. A pretty common term for this is, "Look before you leap." No one in their right mind joins a league or tournament for a sport that they have never played. In most circumstances, that kind of thing wouldn't even be allowed. We're forced to swallow it here because there's no qualifying or pre-season system, but that still doesn't excuse a player from being completely blind and deaf. SE does take the HUGE majority of blame because of their horrifying matchmaking and a wildly inaccurate ranking system, but there is still no defense for a player who preforms so badly that they wouldn't have even cleared a standard dungeon.

There's also no excuse for not getting any experience before hand. The resources available to new players are limited, yes; however, they do exist. 8v8 was queuing regularly until just recently, but even coming here on the forums to ask questions is better than nothing. Most of us would be happy to help if given the time. Sadly, an in-progress match is already too late. Again, there is no dead-carry in Feast, and even the most skilled of PvP'ers cannot help a rookie on the fly if they are falling so far below the benchmark that it's a wonder they even made it to lvl 60. Does every new player deserve the hate they get? Certainly not, but there is a limit to how pitiful a person can be before it becomes unacceptable and indefensible. Even a dog has the brains to defend itself when getting it's teeth kicked in. If expecting the same amount of common sense from a human is considered idiocy, then I'm ashamed to be a member of this species.

[Dimitrii]

This thread wants to make me queue for a feast as a healer.

I would sup on your rage like a fine wine.

There are some healers on primal who despite all the insults, profanity, and hate hurled towards them still retain positive, polite attitudes and continue to queue anyway. They never went away. I actually kind of respect that sort of persistence and attitude and even though I'm no better than alot of other players out there who occasionally lash out on new heals its gotten to the point that these specific heals I will no longer snap/b**ch at in losses anymore (two specific ones come to mind). Idk how they are able to retain such a positive attitude and outlook through all that but they are clearly better people than I personality wise and possess a pretty admirable trait in that regard.

[Ryuko]

This is beating an old horse to death, but we have got to find a way to make incentives for people to queue 8v8 -- or maybe make an unranked 4v4 with incentives to try. I absolutely can't blame newer players for lacking experience when the 8v8 queue doesn't pop and it's hard to find a group to do a custom match. Most of the new players I see getting a lot of hate in a match aren't completely clueless -- they're just clearly inexperienced... and the lack of experience shows. But how are they supposed to get experience without doing it!? Anyway, this sort of vitriol goes all the way down the ranking system. It doesn't matter where you're at. For example, I didn't get an early start on this season so I just recently crawled my way up to Bronze, and let me tell you... the hate people are spewing at each other even when they are Unranked is ridiculous. Fortunately, it's *somewhat* easy to carry a new dps at low ranks, but that doesn't stop my teammates from chewing them apart when they see the numbers at the end of the match. If we get a new healer, though... wooooow do people rage.

Really, though... I know we all get heated, but everyone needs to take a step back. We want PvP to be taken seriously. We want it to expand. Not everyone has a thick set of skin, and when you look at the options available to people, it's hard for them to get experience without actually doing it. So, if you are stuck in a match with someone who is less than ideal... you have two choices. You could either rage on them or you could try to give them advice. But, you're stuck with them either way. Maybe we could collectively add advice to a comprehensive guide and link it to any new player we come across. If new players are met with nothing but aggression from their fellow teammates, they're probably not going to want to deal with all the aggression while they get good. But if we offer them advice, maybe they'll try to learn. Maybe the community will expand. Maybe SE might put more effort into PvP in general. And, while this is just a theory, I have heard from people who say they really just don't want to PvP because they know they're not that good and people are really mean to them. Whether or not they have a thick set of skin, it's just not fun if people are yelling at you... even in unranked matches.

[Mirch]

saint words, i agree

[Avalon1101]

Way to escalate this from a 0 to a 9.

No

What I saw was she just wanted ppl to be nice all the time even new/poor skilled ppl mess up things
And she met this in pvp so she posted this

But her point was still "Ppl should talk in a friendly way"
Which means if she had same experience in trails/raids/etc she would still post this, but in general discuss

Pvp is not her point(I mean the theme