Geomancer vs Blue Mage

[SigmaOZ]

I never played the first so Geomancer for me!...

If we can get both then all the better, the way you put it makes it sound like Blue Mage could be pretty cool to play with!...

[ErdrickLoto]

I'd imagine that Geomancer would get in before Blue Mage, just because their way of learning spells is more compatible with FFXIV's skill-learning system than BLU's.

[LineageRazor]

Geomancer has had many interpretations over the course of Final Fantasy's history. Compare FFV, where Geomancer produced random affects based on the current terrain, to FFVI where Mog could learn dances from various terrains but then could use them anywhere, to FFXI where Geomancer produced auras which, aside from technically being learned by going and visiting various locations in the world, don't have much to do with terrain at all.

If you are too attached to any one variant of Geomancer from over Final Fantasy's history, you'll likely be disappointed by however it's implemented in this game, because it most likely will not be the same. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for Geomancer to come to FFXIV; just that it won't much resemble previous incarnations of the job.

Blue Mage is much the same way, and you only need to visit any of the many Blue Mage threads to see how folks are polarized between insisting that it MUST have certain qualities that fit their image of a BLU, and others who feel that there's a lot of wiggle room that will still produce a job that feels BLUish.

As a point of interest, back long before they added GEO to the game, folks on the FFXI forums would speculate about the job. I noted that the game DOES keep track of the different kinds of terrain a character is standing on: When you're in water, your footsteps make splashing sound. Mud makes squelching sounds. Snow makes crunching sounds. Forcefields (such as in Tu'lia) make electronic pinging sounds. And so on. I thought it would have been neat to have jobs with different effects depending on where the GEO was standing. What we wound up with was very different, but no less valid an interpretation of the job. The same would be true for FFXIV.

[Rhaja]

Just going to take a swing here. Geomancer has the least chance of entering this game because whatever it can do, they can add to WHM. GEO was kinda doomed when they made earth element attacks the main source of damage for CNJ/WHM. If SCH/SMN didn't end so badly we would have likely seen GEO come from CNJ, but right now it would be a tad redundant.

Bluemage is something that they will give the SMN treatment. It won't play anything like a previous BLU and will instead go into one of two archetypes. Either it will have a 30second oGCD ability where it can "learn" or "Counter" and attack from a targeted monster and use it right away, or store it for later in addition to a mix of monster and weapon skills. Or the one that will really piss the world off, it'll turn into a Morpher/Druid.

[Ametrine]

*cracks knuckles* Oh boy, bringing up my favorite job.

To be honest, BLU could very easily fill the niche of a melee caster. And, while it may seem lame to fans of blue magic, the monster hunting to learn their skills could easily be wrapped into the job quests.

Quite frankly, Blue Mage could be easier to implement. Plus sword DPS.



Buuuuuut~
GEO, on the other hand, has varied quite a bit in appearance and skills, and could easily be modified into any role without breaking classic lore.

With that said, Terrain as it's usually used simply couldn't work in FFXIV as it could put parties in a position of heavily favoring or excluding GEOs based on the effects of Terrain in different instances. They'd be far too situational for the trinity system.

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[Ametrine]

FFXI solved this by instead giving GEOs the ability to change terrain, verses the magic of the skill changing with the environment, using a pet-like tool similar to turrets. Essentially, they had multible versions of skills like Shadowflare and Sacred Soil. They could work as a viable support if the Devs go that direction.

FFExplorers expanded it further by letting GEOs lay traps that mobs could trigger.

Classic GEO had a much rougher appearance than the Feng Shui Warriors or Green Mages we see now. Particularly with FFT's vaguely Native inspired appearance. Another niche we could fill is the desire for a less heavily armored tank, using leather skins instead. This version of GEO used maces and warhammers,

[LineageRazor]

GEO was kinda doomed when they made earth element attacks the main source of damage for CNJ/WHM.

Just a quick note - for those talking about GEO using earth attacks like Stone and claiming that would make them redundant to CNJ, remember that Final Fantasy GEOs in most games they appeared in were NOT limited to earth-element attacks. Their attacks were determined by the type of terrain they were in (or that they learned the skill from), so a GEO standing in a volcano dungeon would have fire attacks, one standing in a river would have water attacks, one in a forest would have wood attacks, and so on and so forth.

CNJ being able to cast Earth element spells has no impact on GEO whatsoever, because Earth element spells are only a small part of what GEO can do (and, generally, only when they're standing in terrain that's particularly "earthy", like a mudflat.

[Morningstar1337]

I can see Geomancer having an easier shot, why? Because of a mechanic that the devs had already worked into the game. The catch is that means instead of being a Job whose effectiveness depends on the terrain, it would be a Job whose bread and butter is altering the terrain.

ACN, DRK, WHM, and ARC set a precedent for Abilities that affect the environment in some form (Shadow Flare, Sacred Soil, Asylum, Sacred Prism, Tar Pit, Salted Earth and Flaming Arrow), but they are usually limited to two per Job (and in DRK and WHM's case, one of them is PvP only). I can see a class that is centered around this mechanic and uses it for support. Like say A Floating wind platform that increases speed and evasion, a ice area that serves as a Shadow Flaresque DoT, a defensive earthen area, etc.

[Docent]

Also I'm not sure if you're saying FFXI made BLU a support or the opposite[...]

What I meant is that in FFXI, BLU are known mostly for the [Physical] Damage Spells (and ability to self-skillchain). (Yes I know, whiskers burns were awesome...)

Like you said, in older FF titles, I mostly respected the job for its abilities like White Wind / Big Guard and non-standard elemental attacks, or AoE ability -- Trine was rather strong in FFVII.

One thing that is almost certain is that their "funkier" spell selection like Level 5 Death or Roulette would not make it in an MMO setting, because it would be far too random, situational and/or potentially game-breaking.

Just a quick note - for those talking about GEO using earth attacks like Stone

If anything, GEO should be able to use all 6 elements, if they were true to the job's ability to manipulate any terrain.

[Welsper59]

ACN, DRK, WHM, and ARC set a precedent for Abilities that affect the environment in some form (Shadow Flare, Sacred Soil, Asylum, Sacred Prism, Tar Pit, Salted Earth and Flaming Arrow), but they are usually limited to two per Job (and in DRK and WHM's case, one of them is PvP only). I can see a class that is centered around this mechanic and uses it for support. Like say A Floating wind platform that increases speed and evasion, a ice area that serves as a Shadow Flaresque DoT, a defensive earthen area, etc.

I honestly would love the idea of such a heavy support job. Unfortunately, "support" is such a taboo function for jobs to have here. The devs are ridiculous in how they view support abilities in this game. So much so that they actually think meager temporary bonuses warrant fulltime sub-par performance, as seen with BRD and AST. Both of those jobs needed significant buffs multiple times during this expansion, simply because they were gauged based on the fact they were created to have a core function to use support abilities.

I really wish they would just embrace the idea of support abilities without pointlessly gimping a job because of them, as they did with some DPS jobs that have party buffs with zero nerfs applied to them to balance it.