RIP Minion Collectors :(

[Welsper59]

Honestly, that should be the primary goal at the moment. As I noted above, PvP desperately needs something to incentivize the playerbase at large. The devs have been going about it backwards, either by making new rewards for each new map-- effectively killing any previous map/mode or through rewarding a select few. The latter only works once you have an established community, though not always. Overwatch, for example, has very few exclusive rewards. Instead, you simply earn a currency and unlock stuff. This helps keep everyone satisfied because less skilled players still have plenty to strive for, even if it may take them longer to achieve. A bigger issue for FFXIV is the lack of a rank depreciation, which only encourages top ranked players to stop PvPing just to maintain their position.

Keep in mind, the vast majority of players in FFXIV are PvE centric. A PvE grind is what they anticipate, and why many actually play. Therefore, you do need to focus some of that same grind into PvP, otherwise they won't do it.

There are PvP-only rewards that we can get and they have been there since its introduction (the ADS mounts). All they're doing is repeating the same cycle with almost no change besides said carrot. There is little reason to expect anything different of an outcome. PvP is, and always will be, seen as nothing more than a grind to fulfill PvE needs in this game for the majority. The cause is because there's no reason to think about PvP positively in its own light. There's no reason to distinguish it from doing something else to get what you want (since you can just AFK through PvP to get tomes, for example). Even in the case of the mounts, it's not much different of an outcome than just getting a bad group, except you still benefit from a loss with tome rewards (not a bad thing).

In other words, it's poor marketing and practice for PvP content, which was what I was getting at. Why should people look at or treat PvP differently from PvE, when the goal rewards are possible to be acquired in the same mindless venture? You can currently categorize both forms of content as the same objective. Get a match/dungeon/raid done ASAP (without needing to think about it at all).

Yes and no. I used to play FPS competitively. Unless you're in the Twitch bracket (years after I quit the genre), you'll actually get very little. Games like Halo, Call of Duty and Battlefield mostly reward achievements and cosmetic things for bragging rights, like custom tags or painting your gun. Few of those are exclusive. The playerbase in FPS plays primarily for fun or to outrank other players. You don't have to incentivize them because the game itself is incentive enough. FFXIV doesn't have that luxury because its audience isn't PvP oriented. So you need to nudge them towards it in the hopes they'll find it fun. Basically, you start with a carrot, then gradually move away from it.

That's true but as I said above, we've already done that. We're well beyond this being any form of trial and error, since we have the data on the matter, and it's just repeating itself over and over. Incentives have always been a thing with PvP in this game. The minion/mount from ranking was a proper attempt at the gradual removal. Now that that's not a thing, we're right back to where we started. Thinking the only way to fix the participation is to use the same method with that carrot, which was done multiple times already. I highly doubt a large number of people care about unique earrings in this game outside of collections sake, nor do I think anyone would hail earrings as the same sort of enjoyment or prestige as minions (and inevitably mounts).

Well a better way would to like every 30 days the top 10 players get the special reward not 10 people total ever and no one else. This not some groundbreaking world competition or anything.

It doesn't have to be that way. What they could do is allow a list of rewards as more seasons start. Top ranking players pick one or so rewards from the entire list (which will include prior season rewards). That way, as seasons continue, they can introduce more ranking tiers for rewards. I.e. top 11-50 ranks will get access to last seasons rewards list

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

If you like to play eSports, please search for an other game, there are a lot better fitting for that purpose! FFXIV is still a RPG before all...

Politely, no. I like this game, and I love the competitive aspect of this game, even as flawed, neglected, and avoided as it is. If you are of the mindset that this game should not have a competitive aspect to it, after a community, however large or small, has risen up enough to let devs know that it is something the players want and enjoy, then you do more harm to the game than PvP or its playerbase does. Furthermore, if you would write off and dismss the small group of players who enjoy PvP, I ask you: who's next? Raiders? Role Players? Your line of thinking is what kills a game.

[Yukiko]

Politely, no. I like this game, and I love the competitive aspect of this game, even as flawed, neglected, and avoided as it is. If you are of the mindset that this game should not have a competitive aspect to it, after a community, however large or small, has risen up enough to let devs know that it is something the players want and enjoy, then you do more harm to the game than PvP or its playerbase does. Furthermore, if you would write off and dismss the small group of players who enjoy PvP, I ask you: who's next? Raiders? Role Players? Your line of thinking is what kills a game.

Do you know the difference between eSport and "competitive" content?
Edit: I was one of those in 1.x who suggested to add a highscore!

So basically top players will never get good rewards (..)

When i rember being #1 in sport events i do not remember anyone doing it to get MONEY...
We did it to "shine" and show we are the best, but never to get anything...
Still as professional you have some issues with ADs and you need sponsors, but thats not why we doing sports to begin with!

(..) It doesn't have to be that way. What they could do is allow a list of rewards as more seasons start. Top ranking players pick one or so rewards from the entire list (which will include prior season rewards). That way, as seasons continue, they can introduce more ranking tiers for rewards. I.e. top 11-50 ranks will get access to last seasons rewards list

Thats a system many other games use...
Its based on the idea that you have one currency and top ranks getting more as lower in rank (1 to 10 getting 1000 gil; 11 to 100 getting 100 gil; 101 to 1000 getting 10 gil)
For those who try to attack -> its an example and the system is the same, its the root thinking of the system, you can have it in many ways (other example is upgrading low materials into better ones: 2 low gives 1 better; 2 better gives 1 super)

[TiaHariberux3]

Well a better way would to like every 30 days the top 10 players get the special reward not 10 people total ever and no one else. This not some groundbreaking world competition or anything.

Well ppl would still complain and 30 days is a very small window and they still couldnt place into top ranks. see? Either way ppl would complain cause its for the top ranks.

[JunseiKei]

~snip~

Square Enix attach a lot of minions to physical products because they know it will increase sales as people will buy them just for the minions (I know I have... I've given some of the plush toys away as no interest in them...), but if people can no longer have a complete collection, then I have to wonder how many other people will reconsider buying physical merchandise if their collection will still always be incomplete?

~snip~

And here I still agonize over not being able to get the wind-up Dalamud or Bahamut. Now there will be more missing from my collection? Sitting at 189 here. I wouldn't even mind trying to actually learn to PvP for FF14, but the few times I actually did try, I was met with so much hostility that I haven't seen since the days of Runescape PKing in The Wilderness.

Yeah, I really have no intention of trying to even deal with that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

There are PvP-only rewards that we can get and they have been there since its introduction (the ADS mounts). All they're doing is repeating the same cycle with almost no change besides said carrot. There is little reason to expect anything different of an outcome. PvP is, and always will be, seen as nothing more than a grind to fulfill PvE needs in this game for the majority. The cause is because there's no reason to think about PvP positively in its own light. There's no reason to distinguish it from doing something else to get what you want (since you can just AFK through PvP to get tomes, for example). Even in the case of the mounts, it's not much different of an outcome than just getting a bad group, except you still benefit from a loss with tome rewards (not a bad thing).

In other words, it's poor marketing and practice for PvP content, which was what I was getting at. Why should people look at or treat PvP differently from PvE, when the goal rewards are possible to be acquired in the same mindless venture? You can currently categorize both forms of content as the same objective. Get a match/dungeon/raid done ASAP (without needing to think about it at all).

And the issue with those has always been the dev's insistence to release a new mount/minion exclusive to whatever new mode or map comes out; effectively killing any of the previous PvP content before it. People abandoned Seal Rock en masse because, oh look, Fenrir Pup can only be obtained by playing The Feast. This continued with Shatter, hence why Fenrir Pups went from 50k to 500k (on Balmung). Had they continuously kept rewards in actual participation, be it through winning or consistent play, this wouldn't be an issue. In fact, they could even keep the Hellhound reward exactly as is, except introduce rank depreciation and keep it available for every Feast season. Not necessarily the best way, but a better alternative. You simply aren't going to incentivize people who aren't keen to PvP with exclusive content. They'll just feel excluded, especially with the horrible rank system currently in place.

That's the thing. They won't. FFXIV caters to a PvE centric audience. Thus, you have to attract those people with similar incentives, lest they ignore it. You aren't going to get the vast majority of FFXIV's playerbase to PvP on the basis of being competitive. At least, not until you have already built a stable PvP community. This is why games like Overwatch make the barrier for entry so easy. Someone like myself, who has never played, could pick it up today and work towards the same rewards long time players already have. Essentially, we're all on the same level. I only need practice, which is also made much easier.

Admittedly, that isn't the only issue with PvP in FFXIV. Frankly, I feel adding even more abilities was a mistake. But that's another topic entirely. Put simply, FFXIV needs to keep PvP familiar to its PvE counterpart due to the playerbase it attracts. They haven't, which is why no one does it.

[Animarelic]

Probably been said already but the PvP Scene needs better incentive to get people to PvP instead of SE trying to bait Non-PvPers to compete it won't keep the community alive. Everytime they add something people only play long enough to get the reward or they try and drag the dedicated players down.

As a Minion-Collector I won't do the PvP players a disservice by joining for minions, mounts or anything else when I'm not interested in the activity in the first place. I would rather we skip all the BS and honestly just have SE put the minions/mounts on the Mogstation after the PvP season ends as A last case/worst resort scenario option before I do anything I don't want to.

They aren't doing the PvP or Minion/Mount collecting communities any favors by trying to "force" us to intermingle.

[Yukiko]

We will end like in mobile games:
Everything is put into mogstation, even at release!
When winning pvp games you earn mogstation crysta to buy them...
When missed the event time or you cant become top 10 in pvp you can buy crysta with real money...

So is it that what we all want?

At least its much better than what we have now!
Everyone should be able to get it in a pay to play game, point!
We already pay a monthly fee, to milk us with extra is impudent.
If it is really not enough then they should go up one $ a month or such, but not with those extras!

[ErryK]

snip

This is so extra.

[Zampp]

Nah I picture the mount being next.

But the mount wont be free itll be on mog store for 29.99$