Question to the WARs

[GeekMatt]

snip.....

I've been thinking it might get removed and then it's effects put onto other skills like Awareness, which wouldn't be so bad. I like Cover but that's another I worry we'all lose. Our utility might be situational but it's what makes the most simple tank interesting to play

[Fernosaur]

I've been thinking it might get removed and then it's effects put onto other skills like Awareness, which wouldn't be so bad. I like Cover but that's another I worry we'all lose. Our utility might be situational but it's what makes the most simple tank interesting to play

We're kindred Spirits in how we see Paladin, t'would seem. Let's hope they manage to keep the situational utility while also making the class more universally useful orz

[Launched]

No, it wouldn't. On WAR, all those instances are within at least 90s of each other, making the skills have laughable usefulness individually. They're mediocre cooldowns when used alone, combining them all would just give you another Rampart/Shadowskin/Raw Int tier skill to use. Any spot where you're using it for Bloodbath alone will give you the benefit of the mitigation, and a 90s CD is pretty quick in the world of cooldowns.

Vengeance+Bloodbath immediately followed by RI+Foresight isn't 90s apart. Sure, I could change my cooldowns in there to fit your idea, but then the 20% increased healing is completely wasted. Your idea isn't exactly an amazing cooldown because 10% mitigation isn't much to help keep you alive (Foresight mitigates more physical damage than that) so you're going to stack it anyway. That just means you're losing out on being able to use Bloodbath/Convalescence in other situations (and the 3 separate skills already stack well with several other cooldowns). Again, you're trying to combine 3 skills with completely different uses and that just means part of the skill will often go to waste.

Also, burning a 2min CD because your scholar can't mitigate a Shared Sentence on week 6 is a joke.

The more shields we have, the more DPS the healers can do. It costs me nothing to pop Convalescence at that point (and in plenty of other fights since HW release), so why wouldn't I do it?

[Sweetgrass]

You missed my entire point, which is in the basic use of tank cooldowns.

You use Bloodbath, a skill for self-healing over time. Hmm, I wonder what must be happening during that time? Incoming damage? Mitigation would sure help for that. What's that? Tank damage is a healer's concern? Why not get some increased healing too?

Every time you argue for using Bloodbath/Foresight/Conval separately, but STILL paired with other cooldowns, just shows how vestigial they are. If they were combined, it'd be a good button for tanks to press. Currently, they're just mediocre and contribute to button bloat.

[Brian_]

I don't consider Bloodbath vestigial on WAR. It's kind of an afterthought on DRK and PLD, though.

On WAR, you can control your burst well enough that Bloodbath is pretty reliable self-healing. Over a Berserked triple FC, you're going to heal for 10k+ HP. Unless the damage intake is high enough to demand a top-up and that healing becomes over-healing, 10k+ healing does help. It's even more healing in AoE situations when paired with Berserked double Decimate into Overpower spam.

And, more relevant to your point, at least when I use Bloodbath, it's with the anticipation of NOT getting healed. It's used with the hope that between fairy heals, Regen / Aspected Benefic, random AoE healing, and Bloodbath, that I can survive while my healer DPSes, handles mechanics, or focuses heals on the party / other tank during a split tanking situation. For example, A5S zoo phase, A7S jails, A8S p2, A9S faust add, A11S E.D.D., A12S time-gate, etc. So, having it rolled together with Conva just seems like a waste to me.

Yea, sometimes you do stack a bunch of junk CDs to help mitigate something. Often you just pair them with your main CDs just to give them a little extra boost. Sometimes you want to stagger them just to smooth out a longer duration of damage. Take A12S add phase for example. You want to be able to stagger your junk CDs just to help smooth out the starting damage and ramp into your hard CDs as the add builds stacks.

I think that some of the weaker CDs could just get rolled into a simplified rotation and that would be enough. Maybe Bloodbath is not needed if you just increase the healing on some tank weapon skills like Path, IB, and Soul Eater and add healing to other attacks. Maybe Foresight isn't needed if you just increase the debuff amount on some abilities. Maybe Awareness isn't needed if you fix the garbage hit table (so that parry and block could push crits off the hit table). They could improve the "passive" mitigation system we have and decrease the skill bloat if that's an issue.

CC skills should matter. Some people might take issue with being forced to level other jobs just to be optimal on the one they want to play but it's better for SE that people play the game more. Also, it's healthier for players to get a broader perspective on how different roles function and would help decrease a lot of the toxicity from some one-sided misconceptions about jobs.

So I think the CC skills we get should be better and come from a larger variety of classes while some the the weaker CC skills right now should just get rolled into the base class.

[LilLemay]

I like this idea, I'd take it a step farther though. I think skills should be combined and the stance your in determines the skill used. Like RoH and RA one procs in shield and the other in sword.

I'm sorry but that's an awful idea for PLD, just because i'm in my tank stance doesn't mean I want to be repeatedly slapping the boss with my emnity combo, sometimes I'll have to be in ShO to eat a tank buster, or because a healer is dead or something, but I'll also need to be helping push DPS, and at that point in time being in ShO is nerfing my dps more than it already does by not allowing me to use RA. not to mention that RA or RoH now becomes a 4 step move instead of 3 if i'm not already in the right stance