Paladin Opener

[SpookyGhost]

RoH as MT isn't really a sin, yeah, and I'd even recommend using it during prog - but after you and your healers get more comfortable with the fight it becomes a lot less worthwhile vs the damage you'd gain by not using it. I will say that it is strong against physical tank busters and, especially during prog, you'll want to apply it for those but otherwise it's just mitigating auto attacks which really aren't doing much to begin with and it's doing nothing if the autos/tank busters are magical. I guess to put it in a less black and white way is: If you're MTing and you feel like you (+ your healers) need the STR debuff more than your damage contribution, then use it in place of an RA - just don't use it as OT at all pls. :^P

[Lambdafish]

otherwise it's just mitigating auto attacks which really aren't doing much to begin with

You do realise that the damage reduction adds up when you take into account auto attack damage mitigated on top of attack damage mitigated right? You should be using RoH on most current content (especially savage raiding) that it is relevant to. You are not a DPS, and while tanks shouldn't be lazy with tank DPS, mitigating when possible is always better than pushing your DPS (especially on PLD, whose DPS contribution isn't great to begin with).

A6S is probably the best example of a clearly demonstrable fight to talk about this. On Brawler, you use my rotation in which you use RoH all the time, on Blaster, you do not use RoH and instead use RA (for a DRK and delirium, this would be the inverse)

[SpookyGhost]

You do realise that the damage reduction adds up when you take into account auto attack damage mitigated on top of attack damage mitigated right? You should be using RoH on most current content (especially savage raiding) that it is relevant to. You are not a DPS, and while tanks shouldn't be lazy with tank DPS, mitigating when possible is always better than pushing your DPS (especially on PLD, whose DPS contribution isn't great to begin with).

A6S is probably the best example of a clearly demonstrable fight to talk about this. On Brawler, you use my rotation in which you use RoH all the time, on Blaster, you do not use RoH and instead use RA (for a DRK and delirium, this would be the inverse)

In a world where fairy heals + Regen + Med 2 don't account (near) fully for auto attack damage by default, I would agree. I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of AST but afaik they have something similar. RoH's mitigation would have to actually add up to enough that it would save a healer a GCD of healing to convert into damage, and even then you're looking at a 90 potency loss every single time you need to apply RoH. Again, it's not a cardinal sin but you're not realistically gaining anything by doing it.

However RoH has a bit more merit on things like Brawler in A6S, Might in A12S, that purple Faust in A9S, etc. due to a variety of case-specific reasons. Just in general practice it doesn't do anything worthwhile for auto attacks since they're already negated just by passive healing that's going to be around whether you use RoH or not.

Also RE: "PLD doesn't do much DPS anyway so what's the point" -> That's not a good way to think about DPS. You take all the DPS from everyone, throw them in a big pile, and then you figure out how you can make that number go up. If RoH's mitigation makes that number go up more than RA's contribution, then RoH is better - I really don't believe that to be the case, though.

[MeoTwister5]

Well of course it's situational. My personal mantra is to always err on the side of caution, and the -10% mitigation RoH can theoretically afford you or the MT can be big, especially for physical TBs. Goring Blade is also a given, always keep it up since it's one of the strongest DoTs in the game. You need to weigh weather the 90 potency loss is worth the constant -10% STR debuff uptime. I don't particularly play a lot of EX content, but I've NEVER encountered a situation where the extra 90 potency was a deal breaker that's more important than the debuff.

And I always use it as an OT on a physical boss ONLY if the MT isn't a PLD. I may be OTing but its contributory passive mitigation still. It's still utility.

[Sarcatica]

PLD can do huge DPS too. That conception is really wrong. PLD's DPS is only low when compared to DRK but the job itself can still do good DPS. If you are just turtling in ShO, your DPS will end up pretty low just like WAR/DRK. ONLY if you are in SwO most of the times that you can actually do 1.3k++, if not it will be at 600-800dps (most even struggle to reach these numbers when in SwO /shrug).

EDIT: RoH is only useful to try to mitigate for physical tank busters, else also wasteful and only used for starting enmity. This is indisputable and by far a fact. RA is a better GCD to use by far.

[Fernosaur]

Whenever someone says "PLD can't do good DPS so why bother" my eyes bleed.

Anyways, my PLD opener for MT is as follows:

Lob > Circle > Fast Blade (Sheltron+Flight) > Savage Blade > RoH > Another RoH combo > Sword Oath > GB > RA

Putting Flight between Fast Blade and Savage gives me time to get GB and a full RA combo within the flight window, while also using the damage boost to make a bigger enmity lead. That is usually more than enough to keep me from using RoH ever again during one fight.

This applies on a case by case basis on important fights, though. I think PLD doesn't really have a set opener that is universal for every fight.