Paladin Opener

[BuffDude]

Hey yall,

I was looking around for a PLD guide/opener but couldn't really find one. So a couple questions:

1. As OT, i start with goring, hit circle, spirits, spam RA, and refresh goring. Question is for opener, when do I specifically use a potion?
2. I have no idea about a MT rotation. Please help? As of right now, i start with shield oath, RoH twice, and then drop in sword oath.

Thanks!

[mosaicex]

You can get away with OT opener as MT if
-the DPSes aren't very bursty (eg. no skilled BLM who don't use quelling in your party) or
-you have Ninja to shade walker you and smoke bomb the bursty guy
Shield swipe proc from Sheltron also give you an overhead on threat too.
As for MT rotation, PLD lacks super threat generator skill like Unchained, so if the DPS are catching up on threat the I will rotate between RoH and RA combo, refreshing GB as needed. Also dropped to Sword Oath once I'm in comfortable zone and no tankbuster in coming.

[Sarcatica]

Still relevant. This does depend on fights still.

General rule: good NIN will put Trick Attack on the said timing so you can afford to dump RA combo for first if you are OT. If no NIN, just do normal Goring RA RA.

The timing for your FoF will be another huge point. You want to use it before your last combo. 30sec duration means you have 13 GCDs to hit. Using it before Goring will ensure you have another buffed Goring at 3rd combo (10th) then you have 4th combo (13th) for buffed RA. You can try to fit CoS twice during the FoF period.

One thing I am very much curious though is especially for opener, since you can only fit 13 GCDs in 1 FoF, will applying Goring at 4th combo instead be worth? Anything else is pretty much 123 123 123.

[Khalithar]

For dungeons even with really good DPS I do:

Fight or Flight
Shield Lob
Circle
Rage of Halone x2 to spike threat with Spirits thrown in there somewhere.
Sword Oath
Goring Blade
RA combo for the rest of the fight to maximize my damage while refreshing GB as appropriate and using my oGCD dps moves whenever they're up.

I probably should use Halone more but dungeon bosses don't hit hard enough that I worry about the debuff overly much. Even when I have really geared dps (20k+ hp) I rarely ever need to go back to Shield Oath to get a threat lead again.

[MeoTwister5]

Try not to spam RoH as an OT. Use it only to refresh the STR down debuff if the MT isn't a PLD, and use RA the rest of the time.

As an MT, well, how frequently you use RoH will depend mostly on how fast the rest of your squad rises in the threat meter. Otherwise just spam RA and RoH to refresh the debuff.

Sword Oath use will depend on how easy or hard it is for you to keep a comfortable enmity lead.

[SpookyGhost]

Try not to spam RoH as an OT. Use it only to refresh the STR down debuff if the MT isn't a PLD, and use RA the rest of the time.

Don't do this. Goring -> RA -> RA -> repeat. You will lose far too much rDPS applying RoH as OT and the STR debuff is negligible. You're also suggesting cutting out Goring, which is higher potency than RA after only 3 ticks. This isn't me saying "DPS is more important than mitigation!!" either, RoH's debuff just mathematically isn't going to do anything worthwhile to merit the damage loss. Even as MT you want to try and avoid it like the plague.

[Lambdafish]

RoH's debuff just mathematically isn't going to do anything worthwhile to merit the damage loss. Even as MT you want to try and avoid it like the plague.

As an MT, RoH is very boss dependent, on a physical heavy boss (in harder content, don't bother in dungeons, the mitigation is unnecessary), please use RoH when you can, the numbers are not negligable, I believe it is around 10% DR on physical attacks depending on the bosses strength. In savage raiding you should definitely be using RoH as mitigation (especially if you are in ShO). The skill has its flaws, but it is worth using, and as a PLD, mitigation is more important than damage (though you are right to say don't bother as an OT).

Also yes, use goring blade. Your combo should be RoH combo, GB combo, RA combo, repeat; unless the fight is magic heavy, in which case use RoH until you have comfortable hate, then replace it with an extra RA combo.

[SpookyGhost]

RoH as MT isn't really a sin, yeah, and I'd even recommend using it during prog - but after you and your healers get more comfortable with the fight it becomes a lot less worthwhile vs the damage you'd gain by not using it. I will say that it is strong against physical tank busters and, especially during prog, you'll want to apply it for those but otherwise it's just mitigating auto attacks which really aren't doing much to begin with and it's doing nothing if the autos/tank busters are magical. I guess to put it in a less black and white way is: If you're MTing and you feel like you (+ your healers) need the STR debuff more than your damage contribution, then use it in place of an RA - just don't use it as OT at all pls. :^P

[MeoTwister5]

Well of course it's situational. My personal mantra is to always err on the side of caution, and the -10% mitigation RoH can theoretically afford you or the MT can be big, especially for physical TBs. Goring Blade is also a given, always keep it up since it's one of the strongest DoTs in the game. You need to weigh weather the 90 potency loss is worth the constant -10% STR debuff uptime. I don't particularly play a lot of EX content, but I've NEVER encountered a situation where the extra 90 potency was a deal breaker that's more important than the debuff.

And I always use it as an OT on a physical boss ONLY if the MT isn't a PLD. I may be OTing but its contributory passive mitigation still. It's still utility.

[Lambdafish]

otherwise it's just mitigating auto attacks which really aren't doing much to begin with

You do realise that the damage reduction adds up when you take into account auto attack damage mitigated on top of attack damage mitigated right? You should be using RoH on most current content (especially savage raiding) that it is relevant to. You are not a DPS, and while tanks shouldn't be lazy with tank DPS, mitigating when possible is always better than pushing your DPS (especially on PLD, whose DPS contribution isn't great to begin with).

A6S is probably the best example of a clearly demonstrable fight to talk about this. On Brawler, you use my rotation in which you use RoH all the time, on Blaster, you do not use RoH and instead use RA (for a DRK and delirium, this would be the inverse)