Do you think lore helps or hinders?

[Voltyblast]

are you putting "lore reasons" in quotes because you don't understand what "lore reasons" actually are? of all those questions the only thing that's actually lore related is PvP factions. the rest is plain old game design, they use in-game dialog to give you the tutorial for that process so that Lv 1 players are not overwhelmed, there's no lore to any of those of any consequence.

Irrelevant: you're still blocked for "x" reasons. You can put anything between the quotes and nothing really changes by a long shot: you're having an artificial reason for why you can't do a lot of stuff, and often times it does feel like a waste of time rather than an explained reason for why you can't progress any further.
But as I said, just because there are reasons for not going there, it doesn't necessarily make for a good one. There are "certain lore reasons" for why there's no stone near the scion place, fine, but do we REALLY need that reason? Is it the ONLY reason they could up with? I don't remember the particulars, I grant you that, but why should it matter so much? Why should lore be a hindrance at this point?

No wonder that (A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF) people are annoyed about HW and SB being story locked, when the could simply be introduced via a flashback of their past action, and each expansion the new WoL will have a different story.
Heck, that would make a great reason to reroll: to see the new story that unfolds directly from the expansion, rather than revisit everything from very start. This would even make older players more valuable, as you actually visited the older stuff from the beginning (something similar to 1.0) and now that you're a 4.0 WoL, you have a totally different story (with the same characters though). Sure it would be costy but hey, "this is final fantasy" is not?

Sure I heard Pvp doesn't have much ties to lore but I ask again: why can't we pvp normally without a faction? In the Feast you can pvp just fine without the need to be in a GC and if anything this triad only harms the pvp in general. How long are the pvp queues? I can tell you mine: I waited over 2 hours without a single pop. I had some luck ONLY because Feast was in WT last time, but that's as far as I got.

So while I don't understand the "lore reasons" behind said blocks, why do we have said "lore reasons" for said blocks? Why can't we just go anywhere? This is an mmorpg, not a single player rpg where your progression is limited, AND EVEN IN THOSE GAMES you're not as limited! Remember what I said about monsters killing you in high level areas? Who cares, I want to go there, even if I might kill myself, and that's why games like Xenoblade Chronicles are amazingly fun. But again, even most rpgs will give you a good enough reason not to go there or why you can't or whatever.

But as I said, if everyone's fine with it, more power to you. I just think that probably anyone in the entire world could come up with a better idea for certain parts. Would they break lore? Well, as I constatly repeat myself "The Bible this is not". It can be fixed, it can be fleshed out, it could even be retconned if that's a necessity (although I admit, retconning is quite a shameful act: I hope they don't do that).

....or else why my Au Ra is not covered like Yugiri is during ARR? That's one biiig ploooot hoooole!

PS: Yes I know that rewriting the story is a nuisance, but then if they care SO MUCH about the lore, this shouldn't happen in any way possible.

[Niwashi]

Irrelevant: you're still blocked for "x" reasons. You can put anything between the quotes and nothing really changes by a long shot: you're having an artificial reason for why you can't do a lot of stuff

No, it's certainly not irrelevant. Having something because of lore reasons is a completely different situation than having it because of gameplay reasons, and therefore having a lore explanation of it. In the first situation, lore actually drives what the developers can and cannot put into the game. In the second, the devs are making the decisions based on what they want in the game, and if there even is any lore attached, it comes after the fact and exists only to give an in-universe explanation of features the game was going to have anyway.

In a conversation about lore and where it's helpful or hurtful, that's a pretty big difference.

[Berethos]

No wonder that (A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF) people are annoyed about HW and SB being story locked, when the could simply be introduced via a flashback of their past action, and each expansion the new WoL will have a different story.

That would be awful lot of work to craft several different versions of the story - ongoing WoL versus new WoL for each expansion (meaning the variables would grow over time) - along with possibly hampering the story because now you have to largely fit a single story into one expansion cycle (compare to Heavensward - it's prologue is essentially the 35-40 section in Central Coerthas, and the first chapters that set the stage are in the 2.x series)...

And for what? To placate those who don't care about the story anyway and just want to skip to the latest thing?

No thanks.

[Naunet]

are you putting "lore reasons" in quotes because you don't understand what "lore reasons" actually are? of all those questions the only thing that's actually lore related is PvP factions. the rest is plain old game design, they use in-game dialog to give you the tutorial for that process so that Lv 1 players are not overwhelmed, there's no lore to any of those of any consequence.

Restricting chocobo access to having a Grand Company is definitely a restriction based on lore - and a poor one. I shouldn't need my Grand Company's permission to use my Couerl or any of the other mounts I have.

[Berethos]

Restricting chocobo access to having a Grand Company is definitely a restriction based on lore - and a poor one. I shouldn't need my Grand Company's permission to use my Couerl or any of the other mounts I have.

Or a gameplay design decision popular with some RPGs (and some MMORPGs), wherein you have to reach a certain level and jump through a chosen set of hoops to gain a particular convenience...that is then dressed up in lore.

Basically, the other way round - the lore exists because of the gameplay choice, rather than the gameplay choice being restricted by the lore.

[SenorPatty]

snip

Out of all the posts in this thread, this is the one I identify with the most. Its been five months since ive started playing this game and not a month goes by that I don't stop saying at least once "this game is gorgeous". I don't just mean that on a graphical sense. Every once in a while, I'll learn something new and its this game's gorgeous lore that teaches me that.

And then, I hit a functional roadblock caused by lore.

Like the first time I wanted to ride my mount. Or when I bought Snow's attire before learning I had to have the glamour skill. And there are others but I won't go into that. So I guess when 4.0 comes in, I hope lore keeps doing what it does best but leaves functionality out of its grasp.

[Morningstar1337]

I feel that more often that not, the Lore helps. In fact I'd consider the game's lore to be one of the reasons I continue my sub. I want to learn about this world history while making my mark (or several :P) on it. And they seem to take the time to give everything a backstory, even Cash Shop/Merchandise minions (For example, Tataru was the one who created most of the Scion mammots and the Carbuncle toys). As well as the attempts to make other aspects that don't fit otherwise.

That said for the sake of discussion (and despite that I don't want to see such a thing) I must point out a speculation I had. I think the MSQ, specifically that we gotten a Superman-like reputation as the result of it, might had been a possible factor on (the lack of) Open-world PvP.

To elaborate. We have over the course of 2 patch cycles. Slayed a dozen or so primals, stopped Bahamut from rt from reviving again (Binding Coil), stopped The remaining Allagans from picking up where they left off (Crystal Tower), Stopped the Illuminati form messing with the timeline, ensured Raubahn (and us) aren't wanted men, gotten very close to the Leaders of the nations of Eorzea, and ended the Dragonsong War. People look at the Warrior of Light and see a paragon. A Heroic symbol and hope and justice, and chances are that kind of image clashes heavily with the idea of slaughtering random innocents (or conversely getting killed by bandits), and I think the Devs might be hesitant to find a way of justifying Open-world PvP so that it isn;t seen as someone slaughtering innocents out of nowhere (The bandit explanation may work..as long as you're not the one that started the fight) before doing Open World PvP

[Laerune]

In general Lore is great, it adds something and makes the world feel real. Lore is only bad when it impacts gameplay, an example would be: the GC requirement for PvP.

[Dreamsoap]

You gotta treat lore like it's own little mini game within the game if you want to care about it.

[Morningstar1337]

Someone mentioned in another thread that they have to have a reason to go into a specific dungeon. Which i think lies the crux of the topic. In this game. Context really is king. You need to have a context before doing most important things. And naturally the context is in the Lore and Story.

• EX Primals: Either the Beastmen or doing another summoning, you are listening to a certain bard or more recently you gotten a device that simulates the Primal for the explicit purposes of training.
• Satasha: Normal men would get tempered or killed. Normal women would get tempered or become (sex) slaves to the Reavers. Regardless of gender if you get caught you're in for a rough time. Which means you have to have a very good reason and some skill to consider invading the place. The Scions and the Maelstrom provide such a reason.
• Primals in general: As mentioned before, normal folk are able to be tempered, which means death of personality (and replacement of a rather fundamentalist one devoted to the primal that did the deed) and being turned on your allies or just plain death, and culling the Primals requires dangerous tactics or technology to subdue. Fortunately those with the Echo are immune to such things and are in the most likely position to be able to kill them without any casualties.
• Crystal Tower: An exploration of the place requires a large group to aid as bodyguard or to dismantle the security forces of its architects. So you offer your services to do both, then things happen, you make new friends, foiled the emperor of an ancient empire and then lost said friends to the void. And you want to save newfound friends so you have to jump into a nexus to the Void and slay a powerful voidsent. In this case is more of a matter of just jumping in, but under the pretense of an archeological exploration
• The Vault: Wait why are we killing the priests? Isn't that blasphemy? Wait a minuet. THE POPE IS EVIL? and he kidnapped his son? We must rescue him! (slaughtering of the might-possibly-be-tempered clergy continues)
• The Great Gubal Library HM: We got the book we wanted the last time and RP and SMN/SCH aside we don;t read that much. In this case we came at the request of both the apparent Leader of Idyllshire and the receptionist of the Thaumaturge's guild to find a different book.
• Xelphatol: Same case as Satasha, minus the sex slavery and magnified by a thousand since this is the Ixal's current homeland. You'd need a very good reason to go there and it doesn't get any better than "Preemptively stopping a summoning from happening"

In this game you need context to do anything.