Do you think lore helps or hinders?

[Jetstream_Fox]

Lore both hinders and facilitates XIV. We have issues that conflict with the game that other players have stated earlier in this thread, but without lore games really have no base foundation to grow off of, we'd be running around doing all this stuff with a simply put answer of "just because" now when we apply lore to "just because" we get a more solid reason as to why we are fighting this primal inside a primal or flying to a different area to kill a spherical death machine. But then we have issues with zones dying afterwards and content becoming old, really the reason the game seems dead at times is because the lore isn't built to sustain immersion. So really it's a double edged blade.

[Theodric]

Well, it's a Final Fantasy game - part of a franchise known for decent storytelling and a sense of solid immersion in many titles. Balmung is also one of the biggest servers in this game, primary due to housing a considerable amount of role-players. Thus it is safe to suggest that lore is a very good thing.

I would never be able to bring myself to play a game that lacks a story or character development. Say what you will about 2.0 but 3.0 was a massive improvement over the issues 2.0 had and I expect 4.0 will be even better.

With that said I don't feel as though FFXIV is 'limited' by lore. Most of the time when people put forward dubious/awful ideas that do not fit the concept of the game itself they bring up 'lore limitations' as an excuse to get self righteous instead of admitting that maybe, just maybe, their idea isn't as good or valued as they think it is.

[SendohJin]

Lore does hinder PvP due to GC limitations.

that can be fixed in 1 day.

Option 1 add a line in where you can represent the GC of your Free Company.
Option 2 take off the 10 day restriction to change GCs and lower the cost to the price of a teleport.

neither of those are lore-breaking. if they want to, they can do so easily, they just don't.

[BubblyBoar]

Like I said earlier, the team has already stated that GC restrictions are not still here because of lore.

[Naunet]

I can think of Grand Company limitations on PvP, no Garlean armor, and no Cloud Motorbike; what else has used lore to justify limitations on content?

People have also claimed "A white mage can't wear paladin gear", using lore as an excuse for limitations on glamour (ignoring the fact that our single character can be both a white mage and a paladin... yet somehow we "forget" how to wear the armor as soon as we pick up a staff vs a sword and shield). "Lore" is also pointed to as to why we can't access machinist, astrologian, and dark knight until you complete the ARR MSQ (and why you can't go to Ishgard at all until you do so as well), even though there are plenty of ways and reasons to justify earlier access. Those are two big examples where I feel "lore" is being used as an excuse to restrict players in ways that aren't particularly beneficial.

[Niwashi]

Lore is very important to the appeal of the game, so it's important to make sure that whatever gets added fits it. But that said, the lore itself is extremely adaptable.

By comparison, the last MMO I played extensively was Lord of the Rings Online. That one has an extensive basis of lore that was written over 60 years ago, and merely adopted by the creators of the game. They have to work at making sure that whatever they add to the game fits within that pre-existing lore, and it's lore that was not developed with the plan of making a game from it. The game developers might stretch things a little when absolutely necessary, but they're not going to put in features that are a direct contradiction to the books it's based off of, even if such features might be popular from a gaming perspective.

Here in FFXIV, Square Enix has a lot more flexibility. Despite the importance of the game's lore, it's still lore that the devs themselves came up with, and that puts them in a position to be able to change it as needed so long as they can come up with a consistent explanation for any changes.

[Welsper59]

In an RPG (MMO or not), lore is a necessity, but restrictions are based upon how they choose to design. Devs have the right to do whatever the hell they want, regardless of what any self entitled player thinks about their own opinions having more weight. Not saying the players are always wrong on the "right choice", but that all decisions made are with the devs, not the players. We can only influence, at best, a decision... no different than if Yoshi-P played a game or watched a movie/show that gave him a new idea.

Restrictions towards access aren't new, nor are they even something we don't experience in general (e.g. job access at 30 with a mandatory secondary to 15, quests to unlock mandatory skills/spells, etc), but it is a slightly different matter when it comes to MSQ. There is just so much fluff that it's hard to actually argue against players who hate doing it, because realistically their perspective IS expected as a result of it. Truth be told though, new players experiencing said fluff and finding enough problems with it to feel a need to quit mostly because of it, are far and few. They exist, but their voices on that matter aren't exactly ones of urgency. People doing alts are just bringing that dismay upon themselves needlessly or ignorantly (mostly the latter), so their hate of MSQ is worth far less, outside of maybe asking for a means to ignore it on accounts with characters that already cleared stuff on the server (not remove it as a req).

Where this game falters with its focus on lore the most is with a lack of exploration. When you look at games like WoW or XI, you see games with vast landscapes, zones that go on for long periods of time or don't even have a zone line, interior sections that expand the zone by depth, etc. You want to give players a world that feels expansive and alive, even if it's just by the use of imagination. The way that this games world feels, with the exception of the little interactions that happen between NPCs, is small and almost autonomous or fake. Like "wow isn't this convenient that what I need is literally outside of the town gate".

Looking at an example zone/dungeon from XI, Gusgen Mines, there's a lot of potential history there that isn't just told to the player by some generic story. It's a zone that has a history that is spread out across the general lore. Just going there let's you understand or feel the "horror" of what happened there. It has a lot of lore simply through its visual design, monsters present, lack of music (but has ambiance of deep cave sounds), and mapped layout. For WoW, I'll just use Deadwind Pass as an example, which is the zone that has the infamous Karazhan raid. Just being around the surrounding land outside of the raid has a lot of implied history behind it. Both WoW and XI allow us the option to explore such lore heavy zones/dungeons without restriction.

We can't really say the same for XIV. There is a lack of support for the games world lore to be experienced by the players. Disaster is told through phased or quest triggered events, rather than it actually just being a part of that zone. A one and done mentality that just makes it forgettable and unrelated to the zone (even if the quest says otherwise). There are so many restrictions towards allowing the player to develop an interest in the world that isn't just forced upon us by the MSQ.

In the end, as some have pointed out, lore helps and hurts the game. For as beautiful as some areas may be, it just feels bland. Like I'm just looking at some brilliant piece of art, but not having additional means to understand the turmoil or story behind it... and then its back to generic tasks. It's like taking a tour, where we're only allowed to see or have a generic experience, not actually feel like we'd belong and understand. Thus, we don't universally see lore as anything important enough to mandate. We simply see a game that needs to directly (and quickly) reward us in order to have fun.

[Voltyblast]

I think lore is not really a necessity for making games good to be really honest - afterall lot of RPGs tend to have zero lore and they are still playable and enjoyable to follow - but I will say that if you want to put lore into a game, make it reasonable: don't make the player stop at something because "we can't".

In Skyrim you can explore the entire world without taking the first shout, however in most rpgs you can't explore other areas because of stronger enemies that will usually kill you, or maybe because that area leads to a place where you are forbidden to go: that's fine, it's a cheap way for not making the player go blind and lose their tracks so it works both ways in terms of storytelling (you're not supposed to go here) and gameplay (this way is not accessible, so you must go elsewhere). Even levelling is a good way to gate the player from proceeding: you're levelling too fast and exp is dwindling? Then it means you must go further to increase your level (something that we can't apply here...and I'm surprised they didn't))

However how the way FFXIV locks you from anything because "lore reasons" is quite ridiculous. Why do I have to talk to someone for unlocking dyeing? Why do I need to be a GC member to get my mount ability (even though I got other mounts anyway)? Why can't I do a dungeon without the MSQ? Why are we forced to pvp with factions only?Why, what, why?!

Sure, there are "reasons" for those thing to be there, but "is that the ONLY way to make it accessible? Is the MSQ the ONLY possible way where my character will go in Sastasha? Is joining a GC the ONLY way where I can buy a mount, a house, an apartment and whatnot? Just because there's a reason, it doesn't necessarily make it a good one.

But they're not gonna change it right? Fine by me, but I don't think it's a good idea, and my response is to just skip everything I encounter to make it bareable. Shame because I usually like lores in games. I just don't like the way it's handled in this particular game.

[SendohJin]

However how the way FFXIV locks you from anything because "lore reasons" is quite ridiculous. Why do I have to talk to someone for unlocking dyeing? Why do I need to be a GC member to get my mount ability (even though I got other mounts anyway)? Why can't I do a dungeon without the MSQ? Why are we forced to pvp with factions only?Why, what, why?!

are you putting "lore reasons" in quotes because you don't understand what "lore reasons" actually are? of all those questions the only thing that's actually lore related is PvP factions. the rest is plain old game design, they use in-game dialog to give you the tutorial for that process so that Lv 1 players are not overwhelmed, there's no lore to any of those of any consequence.

[SenorPatty]

snip

Out of all the posts in this thread, this is the one I identify with the most. Its been five months since ive started playing this game and not a month goes by that I don't stop saying at least once "this game is gorgeous". I don't just mean that on a graphical sense. Every once in a while, I'll learn something new and its this game's gorgeous lore that teaches me that.

And then, I hit a functional roadblock caused by lore.

Like the first time I wanted to ride my mount. Or when I bought Snow's attire before learning I had to have the glamour skill. And there are others but I won't go into that. So I guess when 4.0 comes in, I hope lore keeps doing what it does best but leaves functionality out of its grasp.