Question to Healers

[bswpayton]

well I guess this is a question for healers but also to tanks as well I guess. I main a whm I admit I'm still learning , but I love healing tho and I love the rp I have as a healing wizard. So its a thread I was reading on here about cleric stance being disabled I totally disagree I love dpsing as a healer. What Id like to know is whats a comfortable amount of adds for experienced healers for me around 4 to 8 is a good amount for me. What I would prefer would be for the tank not to pull 10 to 14 adds with no aoe dps in the party. I know some will say well maybe I should pick a different job I do pretty decent but the only times I really whip is add pulls bosses hardly ever get me. Next question for tanks how much time does pulling large groups of adds really cut off from a dungeon. I don't want to whine and I,m not whining I train to become better at my job but like I said I love to dps but I feel a lot better doing it with a decent pull not 10 to 14 adds at a time.

[Urthdigger]

Well, if there truly are no real AoE DPS in the party, then doing large pulls doesn't help. If there are (and 50+ I believe all DPS have AoE options), then large pulls can shave a LOT of time off dungeons.

As a WHM main, I generally just divine seal, regen the tank, medica II the party, then put either Asylum or Eye for an Eye on the tank. Cure II/Tetragrammaton as needed when setting this up. After that, Presence of Mind, Cleric's Stance, Aero III, then Holy spam. Assize when MP is below 90%, Shroud of Saints if it drops below that again. Keep it up until regen on tank runs out, then swap back to healing. Ideally the pack should be almost dead by then.

If the tank can live through that, congrats, you have a good party. If the tank drops, either you or the tank needs better gear, the tank needs to be better with cooldowns, or he just plain pulled too much. If things are still VERY much alive after all that, your DPS need to do better.

What amount of adds can be safely grabbed greatly varies depending on how well geared you are compared to the dungeon, what adds in particular are grabbed (Mobs that use a tankbuster if not burned, like bees, or that lower defenses easily, like elbsts, should probably not be mass pulled, or at least not in a huge group), and a few other factors. All you can really do is your best, and hope the tank only pulls as much as they and the DPS can handle.

[bswpayton]

Well, if there truly are no real AoE DPS in the party, then doing large pulls doesn't help. If there are (and 50+ I believe all DPS have AoE options), then large pulls can shave a LOT of time off dungeons.



If the tank can live through that, congrats, you have a good party. If the tank drops, either you or the tank needs better gear, the tank needs to be better with cooldowns, or he just plain pulled too much. If things are still VERY much alive after all that, your DPS need to do better.

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I totally agree and I will def make references to some the moves that you use , I think a lot of tanks dont pay attention to what dps is in the party , and the level dungeon and lack of abilities u may have do to level syncs. When I tank on my pali alt i just try and take all those things into consideration

[Canadane]

There's no such thing as no aoe DPS in the party.
Every class has aoe options. Tge ones from classes that excel at single target damage are generally surprisingly effective at groups, at the cost of some mighty amounts of TP.

[Tint]

healing always comes first. if the tank pulls 10-14 adds you probably should not dps at all. i feel most comfortable with 6-7 adds. with only 3 i feel aoeing is a waste of my mana but without the stunlock from holy stance dancing is a pain. 10-14 are too much, even with holy's stunlock the tank will get too much damage. but i feel comfortable to heal through 14 adds ^^

i have a simple rule: if i have something to heal: i will heal. if i have free time: i will dps.

and with 14 adds there IS something to heal.

[bswpayton]

There's no such thing as no aoe DPS in the party.
Every class has aoe options. .

I was referring more so to just all content like you lose abilities by level , are even if you have dps with some dps they have weaker aoes depending on sync. Just to examples was healing cutters cry with some people the other day a group I did a few dungeons with they got all those exploding fire bombs together at once and of course they stayed in the aoe and died , we had no aoe dps at that time. Another example was I did stone vigil with a mentor friend of mine I wasnt healing but the healer was a mentor he pulled about 10 adds I was playing bard and had that level 18 aoe that doesn't do much damage and my friend died cause he pulled to many adds. Are why tanks that do aurum vale esp as pali without ur aoe attack pull the whole room it makes no sense to me. Esp when whm and scholar are without some of their best healing abilities that they get at level 50.

[Tint]

Another example was I did stone vigil with a mentor friend of mine I wasnt healing but the healer was a mentor he pulled about 10 adds I was playing bard and had that level 18 aoe that doesn't do much damage and my friend died cause he pulled to many adds.

i remember a stone vigil run with me as tank. i pulled too much by accident but we managed to survive. after that i was doing all that insane pulls and we finished the whole dungeon in 17 mins. normally it takes about twice the time (30 mins are common, i have also seen many 40 mins runs) - just as example how much faster big pulls can be.

but you are right: the party has to have enough aoe dps. but however, a monk for example doesn't have the best aoe dps, but if you pull big he can maintain his damage buff (wich he has to finish his combos for). he will lose his damage buff between the pulls and it takes a while to bring it up again. if you pull big he will make overall more dps, even without aoe's. many jobs have such buffs after lvl 50.

big pulls in low lvling dungeons are always a bit risky. big pulls work in lvl 50 and lvl 60 dungeons because we have outgeared them. but you can't outgear lvling dungeons, because your ilvl is snyched down. big pulls in lvling dungeons are a whole different story than in endgame dungeons.

[Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

It definitely can cut a lot of time from a run if you have solid DPS.
as for pulling groups in general, I always start small and gauge how comfortable the healer is with keeping me alive, and increase as needed.

[bswpayton]

It definitely can cut a lot of time from a run if you have solid DPS.
as for pulling groups in general, I always start small and gauge how comfortable the healer is with keeping me alive, and increase as needed.

I think that is prob the best thing to do esp for me when , im fairly new so like I rem my first time doing wanderers palace nobody told me how it worked. So when I got a 14 add pull I was a bit caught off guard, but now I know but then i didnt. So I just think if your not gona communicate anything then to def use your method thats what I do with my tank.

[Teiren]

It really does not cut "a lot" of time, in my opinion. In my experiences, there's only been a difference of about 5 minutes, but what counts as "a lot" of time is subjective, so maybe 5 minutes is a lot to someone. I generally don't like huge groups as it feels like cheating and breaking the natural flow, feel, and story of the dungeon, but at the same time, everyone severely outgears the Level 50 & 60 dungeons virtually by default, so you feel like you might as well just fight almost everything at once. Of course, for dungeons up to Level 49 and 51-59, you really shouldn't do more than intended unless you know for sure the damage output of the monsters. The Level Sync ensures you can't "outgear" them; Level 50 is merely an exception because of how its particular sync works.

Even despite all that, it was very stupid of your tank to do that in Wanderer's Palace. So many people are just assholes rushing as if they hate playing, which makes me wonder why they're even there. It's not that it's too hard or technically wrong, especially if you're with a healer friend, but to me it's extremely disrespectful to a healer that you don't know. And honestly, I consider those people disrespectful to the game as a whole.