Drk tanking outside of grit

[InvincibleShield]

Assuming pug situations where even if you have a ninja it is very likely they don't use silhouette, How exactly does drk maintain a threat lead over a warrior offtank in fights where you can go the majority, if not all, of the fight without tank stance being needed?

Even peppering in some power slash combos, the war is using their enmity combo the entire fight, does drk just rely on the opening lead? Is ninja required for such situations for drk (outside of the warrior doing path instead of bb)

Just curious if anyone has any numbers on drk enmity generation vs warriors outside of tank stances.

I don't have issues holding hate when playing drk, just feel like I'm sacrificing a lot just to stay ahead, and while it's mainly my drks gear at the moment, It just has me thinking the situation really isn't going to change given that the warrior is generating more enmity through combos than the drk when both DPSing.

[Kiteless]

the war is using their enmity combo the entire fight

Found your problem.

[Kitfox]

The only problem might be Berserk right after tank swap. Just Power Slash a bit more. If the WAR is using enmity combo as OT, slap them.

[Lyth]

DRK just relies on the opening lead. You want to try to estimate at the start how much of a lead you need before you turn off Grit. If you find yourself misjudging it, then you can correct for it on the start of the next pull.

If you have a NIN who isn't using Shadewalker/Smokescreen, it's probably worthwhile to request it, especially if this isn't a once off thing (like DF).

Your WAR shouldn't be causing enmity issues, as long as there is parity between your gear. It's their responsibility to stay below you in enmity. If this becomes a point of contention, it may be worthwhile analysing what their Maim uptime is. When a WAR causes enmity problems, you'll generally also find that their Maim/SE uptime is terrible. Sometimes showing someone that their BB overusage resulted in a 10% dps loss helps them to see the light.

In the off-chance that your WAR does accidentally catch up in enmity, just try to arrange for a smooth hand-off between the two of you so that it doesn't affect the rest of your raid's positionals and dps. Wait and take back aggro at the next natural swap. It shouldn't really matter, so long as you both know how to do each others' roles and have available cooldowns.

[aleph_null]

Imo if you as MT lose aggro to a dps or healer, it's your fault, but if you lose aggro to the OT, then it's the OT's fault for not watching their aggro. Spamming butcher's block combo for that extra 20 potency over storm's eye combo isn't worth it if the MT has to use their aggro combo more than necessary.

[Canadane]

My static uses a Paladin main (use regularly uses sword oath) and a warrior off tank.
I'm regularly using Butchers Block, as it's part of the rotation. My PLD isn't regularly using RoH according to him, only for a quick enmity burst during a tank swap.

Is Dark Knight so underpowered in the enmity department that people want others to change their rotations? That's absolutely insane.

[Ragnah]

My OT Opener as WAR is and will allways be Sorm's Eye with Berserk and IR then Butschers Block and Double Fell Cleave. (somtimes tripe, depends on enemy). After that I rotate between Storm's Eye and Storm's Path and keep my Dot up. Sometimes I throw randomly a Butchers Block into the Rotation.

[Awful]

The only issues I have as a Drk main is with good DPS in most DF roulettes I can use 1 threat combo then swap out for the rest of the fight as well as doing it in the Alex normals + EX trials and Savage when I am doing the on my raid days. If i'm with my monk static buddy in a dungeon by the time the boss is at 50% i'll have to go back into grit for a bit to get ahead again then i'll swap out once i'm good, also to note in my static I have a nin giving me Shadewalker and Smoke screening our most bursty DPS it's either our Blm or Monk.

Is Dark Knight so underpowered in the enmity department that people want others to change their rotations? That's absolutely insane.

I wouldn't say it's underpowered but Paladin has Savage blade into Royal Authority, War can Butcher's Block while keeping Eye/Path up, Drk? It just has Darkside + Dark Arts which is great DPS however it's emnity is a bit lacking but it's still doable for sure i've never had any issues with threat, if I lose threat as a MT then it's my fault.

Also hello fellow Canadian we meet again :3

[DaulBan]

Is Dark Knight so underpowered in the enmity department that people want others to change their rotations? That's absolutely insane.

It basically comes down to the fact that Savage Blade has a high enmity multiplier, whereas none of the DRK DPS rotations (Delirium vs SE) actually generate extra enmity. If RA combo'd off of Riot Blade there's a chance Paladins would have more issues with SwO aggro too. So yeah, over the course of the fight an OT WAR might have to use SE over and over again, but it makes more sense for us to use SE and let the DRK get more Soul Eaters than it is for us to force them to power slash. Our minor (30p) loss is pretty insignificant compared to it.

Edit: But the above only really relates to tank swaps when the tanks have a small aggro margin between them. In normal tank-swap-less fights the DRK should have 0 aggro issues.

[Claire_Pendragon]

As mentioned above, the extra enmity makes PLD main tanking in Sword Oath rather easy with WAR off tanks.
If we were to solely compare delirium to butchers block, butchers will get 10 potency over the DRK.
But that combo grants MP and eventual Soul Eaters, which is the better dmg.
(Plus if you ignore Fell Cleave, you could in theory only do BB every 3rd combo, rather than every other combo)

Now since Fell Cleave takes up a GCD, and so does Fracture, you "should" be keeping up SE/SP (w/o NIN) which prevents the use of BB when you need to apply Fracture and Fell Cleave.
Any extra dmg you deal from BB can easily be made up elsewhere from those buffs (if your other PT members are up to the task, this shouldnt ever be an issue)

So I'd have to say it isnt too crazy to suggest the WAR use BB at the end of their combo, if they have SE/SP/fracture up, and fell cleave isnt ready. (Though on trash mobs SP would probably be useless or less potent in most cases.)

(for a very terrible example, that isnt accurate but should get the general theory across; the extra 20 potency every 6 GCDs, vs having SP up for 6 GCDs, the healer most definitely should get an extra attack in at least once, much less both healers. Other factors change this though obviously)