A no new players feast queue?

[Februs]

RNG shouldn't be a given obstacle, its the big factor as to why despite people playing hundreds of matches, they barely move at all.

When it comes to luck in matchmaking, I'm not going to argue the point. For the most part, I actually agree with your sentiments on how utterly easy it is to get royally fucked by the terrible "balancing" job that the DF does. I've been in and out of Gold something like 3 or 4 times now, and I know that the smart thing to do would have been to just quit when I was ahead. If I'd done that, I would still be sitting pretty for the season ... but I also wouldn't have been playing, and I certainly wouldn't be hypocritical enough to pretend I wasn't exploiting a horribly broken system.

Further, it's not just 1 or 2 people who stop queuing. It can be anywhere from 1-100 people, all of whom are trying to protect their rank. Given how small the PvP community is, that's a huge hit to the queue line. It's fine and dandy to say that it's easier to climb when the top players are out of the way (which is not necessarily true, but whatever), but you can't climb at all if you can't get in. There's already been a post right here in this thread from your server which claims an hour queue and no match in sight. That doesn't make it easier to climb. That makes it impossible to climb. Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work. It does, which is why it's by far the most common way of maintaining position on any Data Centre.

Now, again, SE is still the biggest offender here, because it's their dumb-ass system. I agree that it definitely doesn't produce the most conducive environment for good and healthy competition. Some odds are just too high to beat, but I do place a lot of value on experience. You don't get experience by sitting on your thumbs, so the total matches played does count for something. The competition might be totally bogus and twisted, but it's still there. The same can't be said for a dead queue.

No one is trying to intimidate average-ness, I'm talking directly to you, just as you are me. I'll rephrase for you. Februs, you are not good enough to weigh in when it comes to comparing Aether vs Primal high skill levels. Yes, I would love to fight Primal people, particular you at this point in some Light Party games. Would be a landslide against you. lol

And, this is where you lost me. The second you resort to a "my penis is bigger than your penis" argument is the second I simply can't take you seriously anymore; although, it is amusing to see someone behave in such a juvenile fashion lol.

I'm assuming your self-assured assumption on a landslide victory comes from a judgement based on our respective ranks? If so, I find that hilarious considering you just made a very valid and serious argument concerning how heavily RNG effects the success rate of solo-queue. The sound of the other shoe is echoing for miles lol. Sadly for you, I don't consider ego masturbation a valid or convincing argument. Sorry, but the simple fact is that you don't know a damn thing about me, how I play, or how good or bad I may or may not be; just as I don't know how good or bad you may or may not be. The number next to your name doesn't mean a damn thing to me. What you can do in the arena is all that matters. As I said before, lacking first hand experience allows me to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's all you're getting. Maybe, one day (if SE gets their heads out of their butts), we might be able to go head to head and see what happens, but until then it's all just hot air. I have much more pressing and real opponents to deal with on Primal.

[Zojha]

Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work.

Or, if they weren't incentivized to do so in the first place, for example by basing the rewards on the highest rating you have achieved in the season, rather than the current. (Or whatever else you can think of to remove the incentive to not play - there might be better options)

As it stands, the rating rewards work as an incentive to qualify for them and once you do, as an incentive to play as little as humanly possible to maintain them. Rating decay and minimum participation don't have any huge effect on queue times there, since people will still shoot for the absolute minimum of games and you can't set that so high that it matters or people pretty much can't do anything "but" PvP once they committed to it once - and you'll have cases where people complain that they couldn't achieve the minimum requirement of a week/month/day simply because of not enough games popping when they play, for example because they had night shift and thus had to queue on off hours.

If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot with your reward structure, don't complain about the limping. And yes, I know it wasn't "you" who set it up like that. But everyone who supports the current reward structure has no real ground to complain about people reducing their activity to the minimum (which is 0 right now).

[Februs]

As it stands, the rating rewards work as an incentive to qualify for them and once you do, as an incentive to play as little as humanly possible to maintain them. Rating decay and minimum participation don't have any huge effect on queue times there, since people will still shoot for the absolute minimum of games and you can't set that so high that it matters or people pretty much can't do anything "but" PvP once they committed to it once - and you'll have cases where people complain that they couldn't achieve the minimum requirement of a week/month/day simply because of not enough games popping when they play, for example because they had night shift and thus had to queue on off hours.

Agreed, but it would depend on how steep or shallow the rank decay is.

If we're only talking about a match a week, then I really don't think it would be twisting anyone's arm to participate. Outside of real life obstacles, it would be pretty easy to maintain unless you truly didn't care about your rank. Likewise, for those at the top, the idea isn't necessarily to drag them down when they're inactive. The idea is to generate the potential for mobility while avoiding stagnation, which is what we have now. It really doesn't have to be a steep rank decay to provide incentive to the top end players. Firstly, the point difference between ranks isn't all that great, so even the slightest nudge each way would help. Secondly, there are micro brackets within the top 100. The bottom 10 would fear getting booted out for inactivity. Likewise, the top 10 would fear losing their crown if they didn't keep up. Even if the point gap between 1st place and 10th were somehow astronomical, there would still be activity within those ranks.

Basing your end rank on your top recorded rating is an interesting idea as well, but I still think you'd have to adjust the matchmaking to make it work. Allowing people to keep their personal best as their standard would certainly be an incentive to keep the top players in the matches, worry-free, but it would still support a system in which the earliest people to the game would have an advantage. The best option would still be to horde as many points as possible in the early season, then watch the ranks stagnate mid to late season when everyone starts getting unevenly "balanced" by the ridiculous matchmaking.

There's definitely a few ways to handle this, but for anything to work at all, SE would have to do something about the matchmaking system first.

[Nakanishi]

Further, it's not just 1 or 2 people who stop queuing. It can be anywhere from 1-100 people, all of whom are trying to protect their rank. Given how small the PvP community is, that's a huge hit to the queue line. It's fine and dandy to say that it's easier to climb when the top players are out of the way (which is not necessarily true, but whatever), but you can't climb at all if you can't get in. There's already been a post right here in this thread from your server which claims an hour queue and no match in sight. That doesn't make it easier to climb. That makes it impossible to climb. Either way, the bottom line is that people wouldn't stop queuing to protect their rank if it didn't work. It does, which is why it's by far the most common way of maintaining position on any Data Centre.

Everyone who is anyone should be aware when queues die, and it's mostly due to main patches drawing attention away from solo queue. Like I mentioned before, we have a Bard, a range (longest queues), that has nearly 2000 matches. His matches only ended once Patch 3.4 came out. Some games still happen here on Aether, just nowhere near to the extent of pre-3.4. I guess bravo to Primal for finding enjoyment in rng after 3.4.

And, this is where you lost me. The second you resort to a "my penis is bigger than your penis" argument is the second I simply can't take you seriously anymore; although, it is amusing to see someone behave in such a juvenile fashion lol.

I'm assuming your self-assured assumption on a landslide victory comes from a judgement based on our respective ranks? If so, I find that hilarious considering you just made a very valid and serious argument concerning how heavily RNG effects the success rate of solo-queue. The sound of the other shoe is echoing for miles lol. Sadly for you, I don't consider ego masturbation a valid or convincing argument. Sorry, but the simple fact is that you don't know a damn thing about me, how I play, or how good or bad I may or may not be; just as I don't know how good or bad you may or may not be. The number next to your name doesn't mean a damn thing to me. What you can do in the arena is all that matters. As I said before, lacking first hand experience allows me to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's all you're getting. Maybe, one day (if SE gets their heads out of their butts), we might be able to go head to head and see what happens, but until then it's all just hot air. I have much more pressing and real opponents to deal with on Primal.

Honestly, there was never a moment in this conversation that I took you seriously.

There are things called alts, in which you can play on different datacenters.
(Has nothing to do with your rating, if that's what you think lol)

[LisannaTargaryen]

Even in unranked mode it's not fun to play with a lot of ppl don't know the rules on Tue and Wes
I'm not saying repel new players, I'm just saying they should at least know the rules or listen(since they don't and I also want to have fun I post this)

Btw if rank mode only have party form thats not convenient at all

As Savage Raids need Statics or PuGs that coordinate which is the hardest PvE Content reserved for the most skilled players , Ranked PvP should be reserved to teams only. Ranked + Random Matched People = Toxicity



Games like LoL cant do without solo queues else no one would play the game. F114 doen't need em to make you play the game. On unranked you should let people enjoy what they want to do. Yes victory is nice but compared to Ranked the only bonus of winning is more PvP Exp and marks.And in term of efficiency its better having 5-6 games/hr rather than 1 if u care about those. Most Players avoid PvP all together because of the toxicity that brings.

Solo Queue atm is not a matter of skill but purely RNG.

New players join the game everyday. If they stumble upon this thread they will be even more not willing to participate. SE did a good call giving the same amount of tomes win or lose. That makes it less toxic.

But as it stands out they need 2 give more incentives to the community to actually do it. The avaerage Joe will not wait more than 20 min for a feast match. He will do it once he will see it doesnt pop and never requeue.

There are things called alts, in which you can play on different datacenters.

Your attitude was tho my e-pen is bigger than yours. So it on u to make an alt and prove it by beating him. Not the other way around.

[Nakanishi]

snip

The implication in the comment expresses that the event has already occurred.

[TiaHariberux3]

But as it stands out they need 2 give more incentives to the community to actually do it. The avaerage Joe will not wait more than 20 min for a feast match. He will do it once he will see it doesnt pop and never requeue.


.

They already give ppl a reason to play it like unique gear/title and in season 3 even a mount then there are the achievement mounts you get for wins. Also at the start of the seasons queues are actually pretty good. Competitive modes will always be a bit toxic everywhere you go (irl sport etc.) only way to make it better is to change the matchmaking etc. but even then ppl wont q for the rewards cause they already think they cant get it. I dont really get your logic tho with the pve example there is alot of toxicity in Raids not just pugs even statics can be toxic.

[LisannaTargaryen]

They already give ppl a reason to play it like unique gear/title and in season 3 even a mount then there are the achievement mounts you get for wins. Also at the start of the seasons queues are actually pretty good. Competitive modes will always be a bit toxic everywhere you go (irl sport etc.) only way to make it better is to change the matchmaking etc. but even then ppl wont q for the rewards cause they already think they cant get it. I dont really get your logic tho with the pve example there is alot of toxicity in Raids not just pugs even statics can be toxic.

Sure PuGs can be toxic. Statics slightly less. The toxicity stems mostly of not beating the content after many many many tries (see A3S). You even get toxic behavior in DF. But those are the exception not the norm. Atm if u queue in Ranked Feast Toxicity is the norm. If the mount for example is only for the top 100 the more casuals will not even bother. If the mount was a more reasonable "goal" ie 200 games not wins in S3 surely more people would be motivated. The gear for PvP is just useless except going for PvP BiS.

There is a fine line that SE has to thread between keeping Hardcore PvP players happy and actually enticing more people to participate. Wondrous Tails ie is a good idea. Instead of giving too many primals and DF options they should had added less of those and more to do PvP. Atm with WT you can get 8/16 sticker doing unsync content(4 ARR Primals - 1-49 dun , 50 dun , 2x Coils).

In the end i am not a game designer and i enjoy PvP casually when and if queues pop. It up to the community to foster it's growth. Same thing with raiding. People complain there are no raiders in their servers but they dont actually take a step back and try to help people get invested.

@Nakanishi
I will not even bother.



Edit: To add to the toxicity. Most times toxicity comes from missaligned goals. 1 players will want 2 raid more or 1 player will think someone in the team holds him back. In PvP u get the person who is the the lulz there, the clueless guy, the guy who wants 2 win no matter cost and the guys who wants 2 get more kills etc etc.

[TiaHariberux3]

Sure PuGs can be toxic. Statics slightly less. The toxicity stems mostly of not beating the content after many many many tries (see A3S). You even get toxic behavior in DF. But those are the exception not the norm. Atm if u queue in Ranked Feast Toxicity is the norm. If the mount for example is only for the top 100 the more casuals will not even bother. If the mount was a more reasonable "goal" ie 200 games not wins in S3 surely more people would be motivated. The gear for PvP is just useless except going for PvP BiS.

If the mount was more reasonable it would end up in just farming for mount then never try again + it would have no value. The reason behind gear/mount reward in feast ranked are obviously meant for the ppl who pvp on a regular base there is nothing wrong with it and no it wouldnt change anything ppl were toxic at the start of feast when casuals farmed for the 200 win mount.

Sometimes people really talk the PvPers bad its not like we dont want more players its just we dont like people who cant listen to anything etc.. So many ppl jump in there without looking up guides (yes there are guides for classes, pvp modes, pvp skills etc.) hell there were/are sites just for pvp. What we get? Still players with no clue, wearing bad gear (ilvl150 stuff or stuff with main stats like dex on smn) further more most new ppl dont take any critismn and just say "its toxic". I remember ppl just farming for their tomes doing nothing in a whole match thats what PvPers are used to if they see new ppl. Want to get into pvp? practice not in ranked, show you willing to learn (checking guides etc.), ask more experienced players and dont talk sh** to other more experienced players who use macro or chat to help ppl.

Sure more ppl would be motivated if u put it up as a certain amount of wins but those rewards are meant to be exclusive to the ones supporting pvp in this game. Casuals would just straight up leave pvp forever after getting the rewards.

Btw. where are all the complaints about the savage raid mounts that "casuals" dont get. People should deal with it. We have season 3 and 4 the possibility to get it. I hope those rewards never come into the cash shop.

[LisannaTargaryen]

Savage mounts are gonna be farmed by casuals /being farmed. The fact that it's timegated aka 6 months in a mode that 99% of the playerbase doesn't participate and u get what u get. I found via google cache what happened in chaos since the thread were deleted and i believe win trading/ selling wins will be even more prevalent. And ofc they gonna make sure not to repeat the mistakes of the past and be exposed like that.

I totally sympathize with the HC PvPers but want PvP needs is not rewards for the hardcores but motivation to casuals to play the game. In the end the ones who are highly skilled will raise from the fodder in no time.

And as a casual PvPer that enjoys the mode but is crap at it i would love being matched with more casuals as well. If i am going to queue and being rekt all the time by the HCs i would just give up.



Something i learned from my League days. If you are better skilled you will climb the ladder. Even at 51% winrate you will reach the top ranking given enough games. Same happens at Hearthstone ladder after each month. Picking a deck that has more than 50% winrate in a vaccum and add you own skills and after enough games u are in Legend.

A nice video from Gbay99 talking about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcep3XfHi8k