A no new players feast queue?

[Cidel]

I hardly consider a guy with 1 post ever on this forum a representation of the "PVP Community".

He's not wrong though.

I've seen these forums seesaw from "queue times are too long! The match-making needs to be changed!" to "We're getting paired with newbs! The match-making needs to be changed!" and then back again.

Not to say there probably aren't other solutions that satisfy both, but it's been funny to watch.

[Zojha]

Only thing that's toxic is the horrid matchmaking.

That's not entirely correct - The buzzword "Toxic" originally meant players that behave negatively to the point other people would be so infuriated/frustrated by them that they start behaving negatively themselves in turn, causing a chain reaction in which many people simply stop playing because they don't want to deal with that kind of behaviour - like a toxin that spreads through the veins and kills cells.

It has since been broadened to apply to mechanics and systems with a similar effect as well, but if you use it that way, you'll quickly find that the chance to fail/not win as such is "toxic" - and that's not even accounting for rewards based on win/loss. On the one hand, an interesting revelation, on the other, it's got bad implications for competitions as a whole.

Not to say there probably aren't other solutions that satisfy both, but it's been funny to watch.

I would argue there aren't. All they can do is to optimize matchmaking so that "if" there actually are 2 tanks, Melees, Ranged and Healers of similar rating in the queue, they'll play against each other. But if there aren't, SE can't conjure up players, much less skilled ones - it's either wait or make a match with what is there.

And with strict matchmaking you run into these funny situations where one guy is getting pop after pop while you've been in the exact same queue for over an hour with nothing simply because the Matchmaker can find many matches for his skill level but none for yours. And then the matchmaker finally DOES make your game and one of the guys in your team has got a bad day and you lose by a landslide anyway. Fun!

[Februs]

I would argue there aren't.

Agreed. The limited player base within each skill tier makes it impossible to actually "fix" the matchmaking, but it's not outside the realm of possibility for SE to at least mitigate the situation.

Right now, the matchmaking is supposed to look for suitably matched players first before branching out to other tiers, but we all know that, unfortunately, the system is failing. Some debugging is probably in order. They could also re-implement a hard cap within certain rank tiers to ensure that matchmaking doesn't stretch itself too far when trying to make teams. Platinum players, for example, should not necessarily be forced into a match of almost all unranked or bronze just to "balance" the team. No matter how good they are, they can only carry so much weight.

Another, much simpler, option is to just re-evaluate the point scaling for wins/losses with certain ranks. If you have a totally new and untested player on your team, then anyone silver ranked or above should suffer no penalty for a loss. They should also stand to win a bonus of some kind (perhaps even just extra wolf marks or gil) if they actually manage to win that match (which is unlikely). That way, even if top-tier players are slotted into an unwinable situation, at least they don't have to fear taking a hit to their rank. They'd still be encouraged to at least try and win, but they'd also not be punished just for queuing.

Lastly, ranking decay. This should have been a thing at the start of season 2, because people were complaining about it way back at the end of season 1. A rank decay, no matter how minor, should be in effect to improve queue times. The matchmaking system is the only reason not to have it, because top-end players stand to lose more than they gain with the way things are currently. However, if either of the above two changes were made, then having a rank decay would not be a problem.

[Synestra]

Kinda wierd that they left those medals in 8v8 when nobody is going to play that mode properly, its just pure TDM now that there are no role requirements so why not remove those gimmicks?

[Avalon1101]

so why not remove those gimmicks?

Maybe we just need another new pvp mode lol

[Februs]

That's true, but after last update I never got in solo again even if I waited over 1 hour=_=

Unfortunately, that's probably a side effect of your Data Centre.

There's no real polite way to say this, but Aether seems to have the most toxic PvP community in the game. Just looking at the pitiful queue history of your top 10 players is more than enough to explain why your queue times are so long. Frankly, it's disgusting that people are even allowed to get away with that kind of nonsense ... My only suggestion for you is to try and change it. Maybe start a LS or Discord community for Feast queues and get things rolling again. Honestly, it's probably too late to change anything for this season, but if you want to avoid repeating the same results in season 3/4/etc. then it will be necessary to generate some activity to threaten those inactive players. It won't be easy, because the system works against you, but it's better than what you're working with now. At least you'd be playing.

Maybe we just need another new pvp mode lol

Please no ...

If you know anything about the history of PvP in this game, then you know how awful this would be. SE is constantly replacing game modes in Front Lines, and it's done nothing but generate a series of dead game modes and a completely inefficient roulette. Feast, at least, has a bit more consistency to it. Keeping it sustainable is important. It would be better for them to simply adjust what they have rather than try and make something completely new that would divide the community.

[Nakanishi]

How does refusing to team with multiple new players make Aether toxic? That just makes Aether smart.

Only thing that's toxic is the horrid matchmaking.

[Februs]

How does refusing to team with multiple new players make Aether toxic? That just makes Aether smart.

Only thing that's toxic is the horrid matchmaking.

You're correct that the entire situation is caused by the terrible matchmaking and lack of rating decay, but choosing to abuse an exploitable system is still toxic behavior. Anyone who collects majority points in the early season when everyone is within the same rank bracket, then chooses to never queue for the entire remainder of the season, is actively sabotaging queue times and making a mockery of competition. Just because that kind of behavior is smart and self-serving doesn't make it justified or any less toxic. That's true no matter what server you're on, but it's not hard to see which servers are the main offenders. Mana takes a close second, but Aether is the worst.

That said, the fact that the system can be exploited at all is still SE's fault. You can't have an exploitable system and not expect someone to exploit it. So, the majority of the blame is at their feet. They broke the system from inception, so they have to take responsibility for it.

[Avalon1101]

There's no real polite way to say this, but Aether seems to have the most toxic PvP community in the game. Just looking at the pitiful queue history of your top 10 players is more than enough to explain why your queue times are so long.

Didn't look at other data center before so i just searched that. Well... Seems like top players in other databases are much more active

At least you'd be playing.

Before last update everything was fine actually, maybe its last few weeks of season2 + 3.4 release
Discord community is a good idea, but since we can't chat cross server, that's hard to do now, unless i go create characters in every server first

It would be better for them to simply adjust what they have rather than try and make something completely new that would divide the community

If any improvements will be made, good; but i'd love to try new modes also

[Februs]

If any improvements will be made, good; but i'd love to try new modes also

I'm not opposed to new modes as a rule or anything. It's just that we've seen what new modes do when working within the current PvP mold. Feast killed Wolves Den, and every new FL mode kills the one that came before it (no matter if the new mode is actually fun or not). I'd like to see new modes as well, but before they do that I'd like to see them sustain the community first. Bumping everything up to 60, offering equal or at least comparable rewards and incentives for each mode, and implementing a functioning roulette are all things I'd like to see happen before they try to implement anything new. If they want to build a sustainable community, then they have to start with the basic foundations. They skipped that part way back when they started this and we are paying the price for it. They need to fix what's broken first, then they can add to it.