Raid Finder is now useless for learning -- a solution

[PondHollow]

[Part 1 of 3]

I've found in Sephex, Sophex, and A9S, usage of the raid finder queue to get a first clear is severely impaired.

1. Nobody uses Duty Complete >> Practice

2. Almost nobody uses Duty Incomplete >> Completion / (Practice >> First Phase / Second Phase).

In the latter case new people clearing things are thinning down, and Raid Finder is impaired in co-ordinating them across servers.

This means that most first clears (the last two weeks at least, and the problem will likely get worse as time goes on) are from partyfinder groups.

The reward system also severely impairs clear-party groups composed of people of mixed status (say some who have not had weekly clears but have had first clears, some who have not had any clear ever, and some who have had weekly clears). Mixed-status first-clear groups in PF are far more common than all-new groups, and simply cannot use raid finder at all, under any option, if they do not have 8 members.

[PondHollow]

[Part 2 of 3]

This means that if you haven't cleared A9S or Sephirot Extreme by now, and you don't have a static, RF is going to be useless to you, and if you did have a static it wasn't applicable in the first place.

One of the nastier consequences of this, by the way, is that if you are just starting trying to clear this stuff, you need to use partyfinder to enter end-game harder material right now, and after your first clear, which would probably be a fluke or carry, the most effective way to enter the instance will be via Raid Finder >> Duty Complete >> Completion. That will be the first reliable time people will get practice on the raid, when other people are expecting clears. It's not reasonable to expect people with clears who don't know the fight to use RF in any other setting than Complete >> Completion, because all of the other settings are useless. It makes RF into a DF that you have to have used PF to enter first.

[PondHollow]

[Part 3 of 3]

Here is a solution: eliminate all rewards in first clears (short of re-working the absurd chest system altogether, this helps make it work) and implement a raid condition roulette instead of Duty Complete >> Practice. A person with a clear would be rewarded handsomely in proportion to how many people without clears they end up being placed with (and in particular, the reward would have to be strictly better than existing raid rewards), incentivizing new clears offset by the time taken for new people to learn the material.

[Amaya-Asha]

I used it to learn and to practice and have also cleared it using rf though my 1st clear was with a pf group.
I agree with some your points the queue almost kept me from using it.


fyi use edit to make one huge post

[albertopin]

I opened a post about this xD
I've had an awful experience with Raid finder but its because I'm doing outdated content (but not so much)
I'm 2 primals behind, doing Seph and I haven't been able to queue and play Seph Ex. A very different situation from pre patch 3.4
Before the patch Seph was on Duty finder and had decent player base who queued for it. Now its a barren land.

I asked SE to move Seph Ex to Duty finder again, but my pleads had not been heard. Fortunately the community reacts to this and there are more parties on Party finder so i managed to get some (2) clears.

[Moomba33]

I've only managed to get into Nidhogg Ex once since RF was introduced. I hope SE moves old ex primals back to the DF.

I have a bad feeling they're going to stay there until Savage Creator goes on DF for the sake of evening out the number of raid turns and primals available. It's the only reason I can think of for Thordan and Sepirot being in RF in spite of coming out before/at the same time as Savage Midas which is now on DF.

[Werhusky]

Regarding the "primal issue" people mention here I totally agree. I am on the "other end" I tend to clear primals in the first 2 weeks and after I farmed whatever I feel like farming I used to jump into random DF queues with friends: somone gets lead and chooses up to 5 random duties (was mire of a secret before 3.4 as well) and whatever poped we did...
So cleared T1-11 in DFs all primals up to Thordan multiple times (Sepp only poped twice with no success >.<) and it was great fun and a nice distraction... now I am restricted to ONE duty in RF or multiple in DF...

[Dzian]

Needs some kind of check system. Block people from selecting phase 3 practice until they've progressed that far. Block people from ticking completion until they've past a certain threshold.

It's pretty frustrating when I'm down to the last 6% and then get a group of people who have ticked completion and can't even make it through phase 2.

[Ziggyzapps]

[Part 2 of 3]
the most effective way to enter the instance will be via Raid Finder >> Duty Complete >> Completion.

I don't think this is true for a9s or a10s, i have never seen these queues pop with those settings. I have gotten into a few a9s/a10s groups using duty incomplete/completion, though it's usually a 2 hour wait. The player base is spread too thin and there is not enough participation to form groups. Unless they make loot locks class based and give people a reason to run these instances more than once per week, I doubt the queue times for the savage raids will ever be reasonable.

[Deathgiver]

I've had really good experiences for a9s and a10s with raid finder so far (same data center as op) For learning first phase typically under 30 minutes, for duty incomplete > completion almost insta pops on weekend. I haven't tried the duty complete > completion option so can't say as far as that goes. I do queue as healer with my 2 tanks from the static so there's that, but I can't imagine there's so few tanks and healers queueing that it would be a huge difference. Even as far as people trolling the duty completion option when they don't know the fight, I've only come across 1 healer who was so awful that it wasnt doable (they died at least once in first phase a10s every single pull).