Dear Tanks That Aren't Me

[Axxion]

[QUOTE=Violyre;3910110]Sorry, I don't play DRK. Granted DRKs are also the ones that cause the least amount of trouble.

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dark_Knight .

And what do you mean by "Granted DRKs are also the ones that cause the least amount of trouble."

[Lambdafish]

You won't stop this behavior so it is best for you to improve rather than cry and rant on the forums (disrespecting your own knowledge of tanking in the process). When you pull, watch your OT, if you are losing hate and they are in tank stance, immediately tank swap, there is no use fighting for hate, and it is easier for you to bow out and let them tank than fight for hate and die, this will make you look like the far better player. Yes it is annoying, but players are morons and you need to deal with that situation in a way that will keep the run smooth. The other tank is simply an unexpected mechanic that you should deal with appropriately to keep your team from wiping :P

- A fellow PLD who hates MT WARs

[LineageRazor]

While there are exceptions, typically these rules apply:

If the tanks are different, PLD MTs if there is one. WAR OTs if there is one. DRK fills whichever role is leftover. If either tank wants to change things up, that's what the keyboard is for - and this is perfectly fine. All tanking roles need to be capable of main or off tanking, and if one wants to practice, that's marvelous.

If the tanks are the same, the need for communication is even greater. If you have a preference, state it. If you don't, make the offer: "Do you want to MT or OT?" I ask that at the start of any instance where the other tank is the same type as I am.

If you are trying to dive in first to MT when it doesn't make sense for you to, yeah, don't be surprised if the other tank gets a bit confused. How hard is it to say, "I would like to main tank?"

And definitely, if the other tank is "fighting" you for hate - LET THEM WIN. Continuing to trade off back and forth is much more harmful than just one, initial yank.

[Beckett]

I'm not really understanding all the hate this concept is getting. If one tank pulls, how is the second tank not at fault if they try to pull aggro off of the defacto main tank? Even if there was no communication, it's very clear that that person is currently tanking and it's completely pointless to try to pull hate off of them.

I've been in plenty of situations where I've been a Paladin who outgeared the Warrior or Dark Knight I was with, but they went into tank stance and pulled first. Sure, it would make more sense for me to be the main tank, but I'm not going to have a pissing contest over it and potentially wipe the group. I'm going to switch to Sword Oath and do the best I can to off-tank.

there is no use fighting for hate, and it is easier for you to bow out and let them tank

And definitely, if the other tank is "fighting" you for hate - LET THEM WIN. Continuing to trade off back and forth is much more harmful than just one, initial yank.

Also this! If I pulled first and another tank really wants to be the main tank, to the point that they are spending every cooldown to get hate, I'll just let them have it. Again, not worth potentially wiping the group to show how big of an aggro peen I have. And besides, the off-tank mechanics are usually harder/more important anyway.

[DevilsDontFly]

snip

Not really hate. It's just the fact that there's no point on fighting for aggro if the other person is not willing to give up. There is no right or wrong on the situation but we tanks can't expect to be the MT or the OT all of the time. There will be situations where the other tank won't comunicate and just keep trying to steal the aggro, so in case there's struggle and unecessary boss cleaving the whole group, it's best to let the stubborn person MT instead and just go OT. I think that's what people here are defending.

Plus it's one person's view about a situation. Unless there's a video about what actually happened we're only seeing the OP's side of the story, which may or may not be accurate towards what really happened.

[Khubla_Kha]

I'm not really understanding all the hate this concept is getting. If one tank pulls, how is the second tank not at fault if they try to pull aggro off of the defacto main tank? Even if there was no communication, it's very clear that that person is currently tanking and it's completely pointless to try to pull hate off of them. I've been in plenty of situations where I've been a Paladin who outgeared the Warrior or Dark Knight I was with, but they went into tank stance and pulled first. Sure, it would make more sense for me to be the main tank, but I'm not going to have a pissing contest over it and potentially wipe the group. I'm going to switch to Sword Oath and do the best I can to off-tank.





Also this! If I pulled first and another tank really wants to be the main tank, to the point that they are spending every cooldown to get hate, I'll just let them have it. Again, not worth potentially wiping the group to show how big of an aggro peen I have. And besides, the off-tank mechanics are usually harder/more important anyway.

Firstly, if the objective were for tanks and people looking for information and experiences regarding tanking to see this post it would have been better served being posted in the "Tank Roles" sub forum rather than the "General Discussion" forum... as it is pointed specifically at other tanks.

Secondly, the tone of the post clearly showed this wasn't intended to be a constructive post in any way, shape or form. It is just someone venting over a frustrating experience that person had. Oh well, everyone has them, it's no reason to to make a flame type post that is basically calling all other tanks "not named <OP>" bad and telling them they are doing it wrong.... when this guy doesn't even know the names of the abilities other tank classes use, but wants to tell them how to do their jobs. Perhaps bother to have at least the most basic idea of what other classes are about before you go around pissing and moaning about them in a way in which you are throwing out gross generalizations at the entire population of everyone who plays a tank.

Thirdly, there is are several pre-existing posts all over the forums (*hint hint* one right here in general discussion) which people use to vent their frustrations over bad experiences they have had. There was no reason for this to be a new thread.

Fourthly, no one was showing any hate. They were mostly pointing out the OP's gross lack of knowledge to the point he didn't even know the basic abilities such as Grit that other tank classes use.

Fifthly, he's complaining about not getting to be the MT in every instance he enters when he plays WAR only which is clearly established as the OT role when there is a PLD/DRK in PUG groups. And doesn't even bother to communicate to the other tank that he would like to MT and please let him MT, but rather had to come create a new post about just how upsetting this is to him that he didn't get to MT Titan HM because another tank pulled off him... nothing constructive was intended with this OP. I.e. it's flame bait.

[Violyre]

Firstly, if the objective were for tanks and people looking for information and experiences regarding tanking to see this post it would have been better served being posted in the "Tank Roles" sub forum rather than the "General Discussion" forum... as it is pointed specifically at other tanks.

Secondly, the tone of the post clearly showed this wasn't intended to be a constructive post in any way, shape or form. It is just someone venting over a frustrating experience that person had. Oh well, everyone has them, it's no reason to to make a flame type post that is basically calling all other tanks "not named <OP>" bad and telling them they are doing it wrong.... when this guy doesn't even know the names of the abilities other tank classes use, but wants to tell them how to do their jobs. Perhaps bother to have at least the most basic idea of what other classes are about before you go around pissing and moaning about them in a way in which you are throwing out gross generalizations at the entire population of everyone who plays a tank.

Thirdly, there is are several pre-existing posts all over the forums (*hint hint* one right here in general discussion) which people use to vent their frustrations over bad experiences they have had. There was no reason for this to be a new thread.

Fourthly, no one was showing any hate. They were mostly pointing out the OP's gross lack of knowledge to the point he didn't even know the basic abilities such as Grit that other tank classes use.

Fifthly, he's complaining about not getting to be the MT in every instance he enters when he plays WAR only which is clearly established as the OT role when there is a PLD/DRK in PUG groups. And doesn't even bother to communicate to the other tank that he would like to MT and please let him MT, but rather had to come create a new post about just how upsetting this is to him that he didn't get to MT Titan HM because another tank pulled off him... nothing constructive was intended with this OP. I.e. it's flame bait.

I wouldn't call it "flame bait" as much as "I was annoyed and missed the other thread and I was tired because I didn't get my nap." No, it's not constructive. Honestly, I knew the title would make people think I'm self-centered, which is exactly why my first line exists. It's a thought that others probably have also thought.

I don't think I should tank 100% of the time, I actually do begrudingly let PLDs take center stage (Yes, I hate PLDs and only because I suck at playing it myself.).

In the case of this fight though, it was another WAR.

And I don't see why everyone is treating me like an idiot for not knowing the respective abilities of DRK. Am I supposed to know every single ability for jobs I don't play?

And what do you mean by "Granted DRKs are also the ones that cause the least amount of trouble."

I can't think of a time I've wanted to strangle a DRK that I was tanking with.

[Beckett]

And I don't see why everyone is treating me like an idiot for not knowing the respective abilities of DRK. Am I supposed to know every single ability for jobs I don't play?

I don't know every DRK ability (and I've got that job at 60!) but as a fellow tank you really do need to at least know that Grit is the tank stance, so that when you see a DRK is in Grit you'll know ahead of time that they're planing on tanking, not DPSing.

[Violyre]

I don't know every DRK ability (and I've got that job at 60!) but as a fellow tank you really do need to at least know that Grit is the tank stance, so that when you see a DRK is in Grit you'll know ahead of time that they're planing on tanking, not DPSing.

Which can be done in ways other than knowing the name of it.

[Khubla_Kha]

And I don't see why everyone is treating me like an idiot for not knowing the respective abilities of DRK. Am I supposed to know every single ability for jobs I don't play?

The answer to this is "because the tone of your post was treating every other tank who plays the game like an idiot".

Now, everyone has a bad experience, everyone wants to go vent. That's all you were doing. People were just kinda calling you out on where you seemed to be lacking when you were calling others out for being lacking.

It's all good. Everyone gets frustrated. No biggie. It's just those are the reasons why people reacted the way they did, lol.

Also, if you've missed it previously. I highly recommend the DF Horror Stories post as it is full of hilarious and hilariously frustrating experiences that help make our own frustrations sometimes seem like nothing at all. For example entire 24 man raids being held hostage by aggressive ding dongs who get mad whenever anyone does something slightly different than their "tried and true" way. Or just holding them hostage because they're jerks and that's how they get their lulz. Anyway, it's pretty sad/funny to skim through.