Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[DaulBan]

Incoming Rounding.

Lamebrix Strikebox has around 4.8 million HP.

If raid DPS before a healer is 9k DPS. That means that you'll kill A10s in (roughly) 4800000 / 9000 or 530s Let's say it's 8:50

If a single healer DPSes for 300 dps, the raid DPS goes up to 9300 DPS. 4800000 / 9300 or 515s or we can say it's 8:35.

If Damage Taken is a function of time and the DTPS, say its 4k across the raid. So if you take 15 fewer seconds to clear the fight you save 60k Damage.

[Ghishlain]

edit- Just to ask around on the subject, someone mentioned that DPS-> shorter fights -> saving MP/heals. Now this might be 110% true, and it makes sense just thinking about, but did anyone actually crunch numbers on this? I'm a numbers guy, I'd like to see the data if it is helping and by how much. It wont effect my gameplay (cause again, I DPS), but I'm always curious about such things.

edit again- I'm looking at just my hotbar atm.... 530 for stone III, 884 for cure II. Am I really saving that much on DPSing? It's not looking likely so far.

Total and utterly complete napkin math incoming and making a lot of assumptions about how consistent and normal the end result HPS / DPS values are for convenience

Current Fastest Record A12S Kill on FFLogs

Fight Duration: 9 minutes 53 seconds (593 seconds total)
Raid DPS: 13,626.2 DPS
Total Damage Done = Fight Duration X Raid DPS = 593S X 13,626.2 Damage/S = 8,080,336.6 Damage Done

Healer DPS = 820.4 (SCH) + 659.1 (AST) = 1,479.5 DPS ( for the record, approximately 877,343.5 [10.85%] Damage Done by Healers )

Raid DPS without Healer DPS = 13,626.2 - 1,479.5 = 12,146.7 DPS

Time needed to complete fight with 12,146.7 DPS = 8,080,336.6 Damage / 12,146.7 DPS = ~665 seconds = ~11 minutes and 5 seconds

665S - 593S = 72S longer fight ( 1 minute and 12 seconds )

Healer HPS Requirement minus Overheal = (SCH) 2,200.5 * [1 - 0.2958] + (AST) 2,127.9 * [1 - 0.3553] = 1,549.59 + 1,371.86 = 2,921.45 HPS required

Additional Healing Required if no Healer DPS'd = 2,921.45 Healing / S * 72 seconds = 210,344.4 Healing

(Badly) Assuming approximately 5,250 HP / Physick OR Benefic OR Cure (for sake of easy math) - total number of Cures needed is = 210,334.4 / 5,250 = 40.06 casts = 17,706.52 additional MP needed
^ Take with an EXTREME heaping of salt, as there is obviously more and BETTER ways to cure than spamming Physick / Cure / Benefic all day, also Benefic costs 20% less MP

(Badly) Assuming approximately 3,200 Damage / Malefic II (for sake of easy math) - total number of Malefic IIs to match current damage = 877,343.5 / 3,200 = 274 Casts = 145,220 MP used
^ Take with an EXTREME heaping of salt, a more accurate way to calculate this (and I don't have the time for this ATM) would be to look at each individual DPS spell / ability cast by both SCH and AST and find out the total MP they used to hit this


I'm fairly certain I've done a much more accurate number crunch in the past that I don't have access too and even then you never save MP DPSing. Mobs die faster at the cost of more MP, but that also means there's "less risk" of things going south too, especially when you consider healer DPS reduces the fight duration by 10%.

So, that's just some food for thought. *Resumes lurking*

[basketofseals]

Not an issue at all WHM has always been able to heal and dps in the single player games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WHMs generally don't have any offensive capability until/if they get Holy very late into the game.

[Rennies]

Well, Yuna had her Summons...

[Supersun]

Rosa had her Bow

[Alestorm]

Funny when tanks complain about healers doing damage instead of healing and my response is "did you die?".

[Caitlyn]

Well, Yuna had her Summons...

Cait have Cleric Stance, Holy, Assize and Aero III...

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Healing should be about more than DPS numbers. As it is now, healing is incredibly boring, especially as an AST since I can just youtube and button mash to a win without touching a heal once. Sadly though, as long as cleric stance exists, I can't see healing ever becoming more engaging.

Just my opinion of course, but when I can use a macro to spam my rotation without concern for my main job, the balance seems like it would be off somewhere.

[Lmcgyver]

Honestly, I think the problem lies more with the very high iLvl caps. Do people not remember how much harder these faceroll dungeons were when you barely qualified for the minimum item level? (new content doesn't really count, as most people are already well over min iLvl going into them for the first time).

The issue with lowering the cap is, of course, that you lose the sense of progression, and getting good gear isn't as helpful; there'd also be the issue of lazy DPS wanting a carry slowing the run down substantially. But, it would mean that more healing is needed, and it would make the DPS realize they need to step up their game when they actually need to contribute, rather than have one DPS do enough for both of them.

[Zadocfish]

This MIGHT just be the dumbest question I've ever read on this forum.

Why just arbitrarily nerf our ability to contribute to an instance for no reason whatsoever? That's asinine.