Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[CorvinusV]

...enmity modifiers alone are not enough to keep an aggro if the dps is over-tuned on...

The only time that would happen is if the tank's ilvl well under said DPS, in which case the argument is moot anyway. If you compare an equal lvl/ilvl tank and DPS, the tank simply has to be in tank stance and spamming their enmity combo to hold aggro, regardless of the DPS's buffs and output, they simply will not peel aggro off after enmity is established.
Look at the numbers for DRK for example: with Grit 2.7 multiplier, hard slash has 405 potency, Spinning Slash has 770, and
Power Slash 1650 potency (1950 with DA). At minimum that is 2,825 potency in 9 seconds. There isn't a DPS that will do a more potent consistent combo than that of a tank in defensive stance. And that's simply if the DRK is only doing their basic enmity rotation.
Tanks tend to lose aggro when they deviate from that rotation to either buff or maximize their DPS.

[VanilleFang]

snip

I have to ask.

Do you personally think it is okay for 1 of 4 members of a group to do nothing of worth for 90% of their time in said group while the other 3 are doing something of worth at all times?

See, if a healer consistently heals when someone gets hurt that still doesn't mean they are bringing anything of value to the team. You can easily get away with just throwing a Regen on your tank at the start of a boss fight and DPS until it runs out, or hold off healing that DPS at 70%. Healing does not mean you are always being useful. If you sit there and repeatedly cast Cure on a barely hurt tank you are useless and are bringing nothing of value to your team.

So, do you think it is okay for a healer to be worthless 90% of the time, because that's what it seems like. Outside very specific content, and some speed runs, healers can be incredibly lazy. Is that fair?

[FabricioRF]

Cleric Stance is fine as is. It sorts out the good healers from the bad ones.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip?

Personally, I couldn't care less, if I'm not dying. I don't know what the situation is with them, perhaps they don't enjoy an aggressive play style, perhaps they aren't comfortable dpsing with a tank they don't know. What pertinence does any of the above have to me? I'll still use my defensive cd's, take an aggressive stance as much as I feel comfortable with, and that's that. I'd be much more likely to vote kick if they let an easily prevented wipe happen while dpsing than if they never dpsed.

[Feyona]

As a reply to the guy who quoted me above an to other posts that imply that healers are lazy or slacking if they dont dps, I never stood around doing nothing as a healer, lower lvel content I dps. though I do not enjoy dps as much as healing ( otherwise I would play dps which is a choice of everyone of you who seem to prefer dps to healing) . Higher level stance dancing is hard because I have been expected to switch roles while even learng a10s , therefore i do not feel safe to even dare to enter cleric as tanks can die in 2 secons not 5. Nevertheless I was still kicked out of the static for not dpsing. Even though I was healing constantly. My points are the expectations put on healers is getting too much for average player like me to deal with. I am not a bad healer because I cannot perform two roles at times but this is becoming the expectation, which your comments proves. those lucky to have good group then you are safe to go in cleric and do 800dps.

[Ragology]

As a reply to the guy who quoted me above an to other posts that imply that healers are lazy or slacking if they dont dps, I never stood around doing nothing as a healer,

I'm sure that when people label others as "lazy healers," they mean healers who don't contribute when attentive healing is no longer needed.

You're absolutely fine minimizing your use of cleric stance, especially during the learning phases. I don't think the raids are tuned with healer damage included anyway.

[Feyona]

I feel this cleric stance is an issue. This is a social game where everyones opinion should matter. I dont like to see posts that imply that if you cannot do what someone else can do then you are not good enough to play the game or somethin. Content is meant to be a team effort, if a healer feelsits not safe then they should not feel pressured to, which is akind of bullying. I would like people to understand this. Although its seems they dont, therefore, maybe the game designers need to look at the issue here of some casses being expected to play two roles amost simultaniousy, some can do it cmfortably and sme cant. It aways helps if the team your in all plays their roles well , but this isnt always the case, so immediatey its the healers fault for not having the space to dps. It seems to be popular that healers should be able to dps, but I would like not to have cleric and just to have damage scaled with mind would stop some of the panic of having to get out cleric fast enough.

[Elysaine]

I generally run with Cleric Stance turned on. Only times when I go without is either it's my first time doing a specific dungeon and I have to learn how it goes. Or if I run into a level roulette with an under geared tank.

But normally I try to contribute as much dps as I can in between healing. And I can't see myself do that without Cleric Stance. Without CS my DPS spells deal so little damage compared to the amount of mana they cost. It's just not worth casting them.

[Cynfael]

snip

1. While harassment is not acceptable, neither is it acceptable for players to choose to slack. Several of us have taken pains to explain the difference between learning/uninformed players and those who are willfully lazy, so I won't retread that.

2. The "I don't feel comfortable doing X" argument is tricky since its weakness is even more obvious when you apply it to other roles. Dragoon sticks to basic rotation at lvl 60 because they're "uncomfortable" with using so many skills? Dark Knight has MP issues but will never, ever drop Grit to activate Blood Weapon? A lot of people are more comfortable if they can stand in one spot and hit 3 buttons, but that's not a fair choice to make in a social game.

2a. We've already established that the need to heal takes priority and that DPS expectation is lower if you are forced to heal stupid in order to clear your duty, so I'm considering that a given.

3. Cleric Stance panic is not something that happens when you know how and when to use it.

4. Healers are expected to play one role. It so happens that they enjoy a very versatile role, arguably the most powerful role in the game. The efforts on these forums to have it dumbed down and crammed into a healbot niche are sad.

[AmeliaVerves]

Just want to tell my story with a few words:

When I started as a healer (scholar was my first one) I was really insecure und scared of wipes and being yelled at badly so I didn't even cross-skilled CS. One could say "But you got Eos?!". Yeah, but it was my first healer and I was not comfortable with it. I just started dpsing in dungeons, when i hit Lvl 50 and got familiar with my scholar, but tbh it was a total mess. xD
A lot of wipes, a lot of people telling me off and a lot of me figuring out how and when to stance dance. I had to reach Lvl60 and learn how to use Eos properly before I was totally able to dps properly, but I tried and failed and tried again to see how far I can push my limits.
And look at me now! Main Scholar and raiding with it. Besides I am 100% off heal, capping Acc to DPS during raids and push the damage as far as I can.

A lot of text, I know, but in the end I can say: I am more than fine with CS and how it works and I hope they wont change it in any way!