The toxicity of questing in MMORPGs today

[Kosmos992k]

This article is not about the toxicity of questing, or modern MMORPGs, it more about the toxic expectations of the author. I could have stopped reading when I got to this part;

This means that all MMO players will complete the same quests and be hailed as heroes by the same NPCs, it takes away the chance for the player to properly feel like a hero when xXxSephiroth07xXx has completed the same exact quest and gained the same exact reward.

...because that encapsulates the nature of the complaint.

The trouble is, that this is exactly how all games work. No game that has 600,000 + active players can uniquely reward each player for stumbling over the same quest line. They will all get the same reward and achievement. The only way not to do this is a completely randomized reward structure and quest-line, which IMHO leads to a complete lack of coherence within the game.

The selfish, whiny attitude that complains that they are not the only hero, or the idea that some other player being able to achieve the same thing detracts from your own achievement says more about a person's sense of self worth. Validating yourself on the basis of some virtual achievement is doomed from the start. Someone else will always achieve the same thing. Howe about taking satisfaction that *you* were able to do it yourself, rather than whether or not someone else could?

The selfish and entitled attitude that says I should be the hero and no one else can achieve the things I have achieved is truly toxic. I mean, what does that player expect to happen, the quest that they beat is no longer available for anyone else. So the developers are supposed to make this stuff for a single individual to overcome and disable it after that? What kind of person holds onto that kind of expectation? Yet that seems to be to be one of the primary planks that this article uses.

Almost as if to re-enforce my view of the article's author, they later include this gem

Real "heroes" will be born, skilled players that others can look up to.

So, is this what it's really about? Players wanting others to look up to them? Egotistical, entitles and selfish, these are not good things in a social context like an MMORPG. And yet this author talks of the toxicity of questing all the while displaying a toxic attitude towards others.

Irony isn't a strong enough word for this, but it will have to do.

[Leogun]

Just like you learned to play MMOs using a keyboard before, it's perfectly normal. You should try playing FFXIV with a PS4 controller, I actually thought SE nailed the controls pretty wellin FFXIV, although I also prefer using a mouse and keyboard in this case. The bigger issue between keyboard and VR is that unless you've got perfect keyboard controls when typing and playing, you'd waste time trying to find the right keys or regaining your finger positions with the headset covering your eyes. Controllers have the advantage of always keeping your fingers over the relevant buttons, making it far easier to play "blind" and they also allow greater mobility since you'll want to turn your head/body at times. And yes, VR MMOs will face other problems they'll need to solve like player communication.

I did say "until you learned how" but I prefer to play with a keyboard and mouse because:


-I've already purchased non-standard and not-cheap keyboard and mouse.
-I've played with keyboard and mouse for years and am quite comfortable with a multitude of keyboard setups.
-I tab or click off of games and do other stuff on my computer which requires a keyboard.
-If I'm already using a keyboard to type stuff, why would I really want a controller?

As for the mobility thing, while I appreciate motion controls and the novelty they provide, it's not greater mobility than simply a wrist move with your mouse to do the exact same thing. The only change here is field of view

[Zigabar]

I just don't understand why you used the word "Toxic".

Clickbait.

[Renik]

If you're going to be playing in third person anyway, what's the point of wearing a VR headset? At that point it's just a gimmick. I'd rather just keep playing the way I do now.

I guess it's about preferences, just saying that VR headsets are compatible with the existing systems. But when I said that the future in MMORPGs is VR I was thinking in may be 10-15 years in the future, as you said the genre will be absolutely different to what we have now, or may not even exist (I think most games will be MMO in the future, everything has online and this online gets bigger, but that's just my opinion and a different topic), but anyway, what we have now in FFXIV is just one of many systems and not a standard.

I would like to discuss more on this topic, but this is getting more theoretical with each post, and this could take days, so I'll just leave it here.

[Khubla_Kha]

When people stop using terms like "toxicity" as blanket terms to describe everything they don't like in the current model of whatever it is they are playing then I might begin reading articles/blogs written by gamers again. Right now it is just unbearable to read through people's ramblings where they label anything they disagree with or dislike as "toxicity". At least purchase a thesaurus so that we can see some other terms used. This is just terrible writing.

The issue this person has, the author of the blog post, is clearly caused by their own perspective and expectations. Look inward for answers rather than always projecting blame to others.

[raela]

Why would they need a voice thing to make you sound like your character? I'm not being mean or demeaning either when I ask that. I generally want to know as I find that part of your text interesting.

I came across a blog post the other day about a woman's first time in a VR game. As soon as she turned to multiplayer and talked, someone else started following her around, groping her character.. So yeah, I could see where a voice changer would help.

[Chocolys]

The RPG genre is not limited by the kind of combat chosen by its developers. An Elder Scrolls game is as much an RPG as a game like Final Fantasy. MMORPGs are no exception despite the lack of "innovation" over the last decade (and longer) in the way they are played. The choice of combat type has no bearing on a player's ability to RP.

The particular part you quoted however referred to the future, VR MMORPGs, and how the VR genre will undoubtedly force developers to bring about some changes in how they conceive MMOs if they intend on bringing the MMO world to the VR world. My point was that I don't see the current formula changing until the very last moment where the medium (VR) will force them to seek alternatives to the traditional formula, because the old formulas are not as feasible for VR. Using a keyboard is difficult while wearing a VR headset hence the need for an alternative: a controller.

I agree and I think you misunderstood what I meant, or I was not clear enough.

In a Elder Scrolls game for example, your character efficiency is a lot tied to its attributes, no matter what controller classic or next gen VR you would use. For example if you have little One Handed skill level 15, no matter how hard or how good you are at swinging in real life, you still gonna do little damage with One Handed weapon.

Now in the article about MMORPG: "this opens the door for content where a player's skills, as a person rather than as a character....", if you base a character's efficiency on the player's efficiency, you're not roleplaying anymore, you're just playing a projection of yourself inside a fantasy universe, at least from a combat perspective. You won't be able for example to roleplay a fast swinger, if you're a slow swinger in real life. That's what I mean when I say the more you transfer a character efficiency toward the player, the more you restrict the roleplaying aspect.

The article implies that MMORPG based on player's skill rather than character skills are better. And I disagree with that, because it has a loss in roleplaying potential

[Naunet]

I don't think questing have changed much since the first MMOs besides quest marks on NPCs and map markers, what makes a quest good or bad is the writing and its gameplay.

This is very true, and there is a habit in the MMO industry (though there are some exceptions) to not hire actual writers but rather promote game devs who think they can write and have "such awesome ideas!!!" to the job. >_<

That is what I've been told by folk in-the-know, at least.

[MikeWW]

The article has a lot of unjustifiable proclamations to try to sound smart and doesn't make any points worth reading. To quote Eric Blair: The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns, as it were, instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink.

Regarding MMO story and quests, I think the main issue is that a lot of the literature we get today are written by people who lack either the intelligence or the training to be good writers, and a lot of quests are done by people who don't understand what constitutes fun gameplay or have bosses who tell them to make boring filler.

[CheshirePuss]

Snip

This... feels like an almost unnecessary point. I feel like if we were to play a game for the sake of true immersion, we'd need to forfeit the multiplayer aspect of the MMO... which is redundant. It is true that SE takes the route of "You are our Warrior of Light", but it's not blind to the fact that it's not a game about just one person. On several occasions, it drops small bits of commentary that suggests they are aware that the Warrior of Light does not often fight alone, and is even suggested at those times to gather your band of adventurers for this or that task.

Hell, even at the start, it shows you and a half a dozen random stranger npc's flying off when you're first introduced to Hydaelyn. It has never been about just our character (even though the story focuses on yours for continuity sake).