Just some toughts from (relativly) new player

[Kurogaea]

I wasn't speaking for myself, I was speaking for every time this comes up people prove that's not what they want. They prove this by following the 1% every single time and almost every single game. Hell in my example in the game Tera I made a speed slayer, you can guess how that went. That's not how it's played and you get shuned and laughed at by everyone else cause everyone says they want to be different but being different doesn't get them those numbers. The Division has many different builds, but most people only do like one or two. Everything else is crap as far as the playerbase says. So what was the point?

Sounds like a personal issue if your worried about what other players think. Just because you decide to wear a nights cap and I think its tacky doesn't mean you should give a damn what I think as long as you like it. The point is choice. We can choose how we play, and how we go about things. If one situation is best suited for another, we can improvise on our weaknesses or strengths and make it work close or sometimes better than the BIS stuff. If your scared of it thats fine, just remember no ones saying you have to change anything.

[HyoMinPark]

Speak for yourself. Like some, I prefer to make my own build and master it, customizing it to suit my own preferences. People ask for it because this is an MMORPG. We want to customize our own characters. Period.

Agreed. When I'm making gear sets, I base them off of the stats I find desirable for the job the gear set is for. I don't really go off of the hardcore raider BiS. I base them off of the stats that seem appealing to me. Same goes for when I'm doing my openers. Some times I use an opener a friend gave me. But for some I do one that I prefer because of flow.

[cammi]

Sounds like a personal issue if your worried about what other players think. Just because you decide to wear a nights cap and I think its tacky doesn't mean you should give a damn what I think as long as you like it. The point is choice. We can choose how we play, and how we go about things. If one situation is best suited for another, we can improvise on our weaknesses or strengths and make it work close or sometimes better than the BIS stuff. If your scared of it thats fine, just remember no ones saying you have to change anything.

Ok.. WTF I JUST said this wasn't my problem and I was only explaining why I thought it was pointless. I'm not worried about S*** other people do, do you see me asking for this crap? NO. I was only saying how I thought it was pointless because 90% of players are just going to follow some meta and call it a day. Sorry I have a different opinion but that's life. No need to throw insults around like a child. Sides there's better things to do, like eat icecream and play video games.

[Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

I have to agree here...
As much as I like customisation, Cammi is right.
In every MMO I've been in (EQ, FFXI, WoW, Warhammer: AoR, Age of Conan, Division, just off the top of my head) when you get into a pug group the following happens:
- Whats your spec?
- If it's not <insert flavor of the month build>
- Kicked.
I've been playing MMOs for 16 years now, raiding in every one of them, and 90% of the time, things like that happen. RARELY will you find a group of randoms that will "tolerate" a custom build outside of what's "optimal."

[cammi]

I have to agree here...
As much as I like customisation, Cammi is right.
In every MMO I've been in (EQ, FFXI, WoW, Warhammer: AoR, Age of Conan, Division, just off the top of my head) when you get into a pug group the following happens:
- Whats your spec?
- If it's not <insert flavor of the month build>
- Kicked.
I've been playing MMOs for 16 years now, raiding in every one of them, and 90% of the time, things like that happen. RARELY will you find a group of randoms that will "tolerate" a custom build outside of what's "optimal."

Thank you for getting my point man. What you wrote is the normal experience that happens, hell you can even see this in the dungeon thread on this very site. People get kicked for simple mistakes. So again I wonder why people ask for this only to follow a meta and shun everyone else who doesn't follow said meta.

[Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

I think people ask for this because we all hope that it will finally happen as we wish it would. I know I do.
I loved FFXI, for example, and absolutely loved my Dark Knigh/Black Mage, but sadly the flavor of the month was Dark Knight/Warrior, and after countless kicks, I gave up on the game and moved on to other things.
Also, I think clicking through a talent tree, even if you end up picking the meta feels a bit more personal than having the game make the choice for you.

[Kurogaea]

Ok.. WTF I JUST said this wasn't my problem and I was only explaining why I thought it was pointless. I'm not worried about S*** other people do, do you see me asking for this crap? NO. I was only saying how I thought it was pointless because 90% of players are just going to follow some meta and call it a day. Sorry I have a different opinion but that's life. No need to throw insults around like a child. Sides there's better things to do, like eat icecream and play video games.

Geez I wasn't insulting you. I said the hat thing as an example, it actually looks fine on miqote's. Everyone else it just looks a like a tribute to Scrooge.

Anyways, That 90% your talking about is the Raid tier players and those who are unfamiliar with class building which are about 10-20% being raid tier and 35-40%% being the average player, then you have veteran mmo players, 40-50% who experienced some of these things and on occasion participate in raids but not as much as raiders usually do. When you don't know what to do and your unfamiliar with the game you look for guides, thats where BIS comes to play. If your playing and your familiar with standard mmos or general game builds you form your own. When I said scared I meant in a way as in "fear of change" its not unheard of.

Anyways as you said you think its pointless, thats cool, I just think its a nice way to give the player's more control on their characters growth as a whole. I respect your opinion, no hard feelings.

[cammi]

Post limit is getting sued.

My bad for the anger, text is hard. No hard feelings on my end either. This just comes up more than once and it's the same two sides butting heads all the time. And seeing it ingame in various games I became abit jaded on the subject. Honestly I myself wouldn't mind it, but sadly it's everyone else that'll shoot something like that down because everyone is following that meta or whatever. The best way is for both, but I haven't seen a game to pull that off. The Division is what comes close to mind and even that game players aren't that forgiving.

[Reynhart]

In every MMO I've been in (EQ, FFXI, WoW, Warhammer: AoR, Age of Conan, Division, just off the top of my head) when you get into a pug group the following happens:

In FFXIV, when you get into a pug group, the following happens :
{Hello} (Optionnal)
run starts
run goes smoothly
run ends
{Congratulations}{See you again} (Optionnal)

People get kicked for simple mistakes.

Yes, mistakes. If you lose aggro too much, you're a bad tank, it you don't heal, you're a bad healer, if you only auto-attack, you're a bad DPS. If you're doing your job, people don't care if you're not optimal. What was the last time you kicked your tank/your healer in a dungeon because it wasn't a WAR/SCH ?

[KitingGenbu]

As Kurogea said, the optimal builds really only pertain to those that hardcore raid, which in reality is a very small fraction of the entire player base of any game (WoW included). Sure 90% of that population will care about your stats/talents/etc but the other 85% of the realistic player base wont as long as you're semi-competent as Reynhart said. So when you look at it in reality, player choice affects more than this 90% that was mentioned which again is only 90% of the hardcore community, which yet again, is only 15% of the general community of any mmorpg. I say 15% because Yoshida was saying numbers were around there on full Midas Savage clears.