Thread: Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

I think the a9s faust fight is a good example where you can see what Brian mentioned about having extra dps instead of another tank/healer since the fight is rather short, so the differences will be more pronounced. You can check some of the fastest clears on fflogs and see their dps compared to the traditional 2/2/4 compositions comprising (mostly) the same people.

These two are some of such logs that I recently reviewed (to improve my own group's performance in the same fight):

DRK/WAR, AST/SCH, DRG/NIN/BRD/SMN, 0:56 kill time, 21,495.6 party dps, 18 Nov.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/hACX8...pe=damage-done

DRK/WAR, AST, DRG/NIN/BRD/MCH/SMN, 0:46 kill time, 26,195.6 party dps, 10 Nov.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/nGAMa...pe=damage-done

That's a 4.7k raid dps difference JUST by swapping a SCH for a MCH, while the other 7 members are the same, also note that the 2/2/4 log was posted slightly more than a week later than the 2/1/5 log, so their gears should be relatively similar. I know it's not exactly the best example for our discussion since we're talking about 1/2/5 vs 2/2/4 compositions, but this at least shows that adding 1 extra dps matters a lot when you optimize your group composition. Sadly I can't seem to find a solo tank log that has 2 healers, all of them seem to have 1 tank and 1 healer.

Originally Posted by aleph_null

I know it's not exactly the best example for our discussion since we're talking about 1/2/5 vs 2/2/4 compositions, but this at least shows that adding 1 extra dps matters a lot when you optimize your group composition.

This still wouldn't be the best example to use the current raid design with the current tanks to state what could or couldn't be done.

Besides, on such short fights, the difference is less "pronounced" that "virtually inflated". In the 46s kill time, you almost has 50% uptime for Hypercharge, of course it would have a tremendous effect. It's like doing a 30s parse on a triple Fell Cleave opener to claim WAR can top even the most powerfull and skilled DPS. For the record, how did those two groups do on the actual boss ?

I did solo heal for a9s before. Both MT and single healer seemingly struggled to do more dps. I was using PLD back then and I felt that I had to switch on ShO more. WAR can do close to a DPS range in a9s due to the aoe, so there is no question on that. The main issue is the correlation of MT and the healer(s) total DPS. The fastest a9s should still be 3:17 from Rushers and they do normal comp for that fyi.

I have a feeling that DRG/NIN/BRD/MCH is currently the best DPS comp for Creator to play with mostly because all of them synergize well as a group. The reported fastest a12s is below 9mins and that comp highlights killing alex prime before last phase began.

Link: https://youtu.be/vXubi1TSXqI

Currently MNK, PLD and WHM are not included in top speedruns due to obvious reasons. WHM is still somewhat used in a9s because the job itself has more burst in a shorter fight, paired up with AST. AST/SCH combo is still preferred though.

Are they planning to reduce the GCD timer, to make it more fast paced action combat focus like BnS or TESO?

You guys need to remember that speedrun is the only place where not only that group is tested on how good they are, but also how the game works. They chose to do double mch instead of bringing mnk is very much how the format goes. Mnk doesnt bring anything extra than their top solo dps which doesnt do anything in speedruns.

For clear and all that, you are free to use even 2 monks and you are still fine. Balance is ofc fragile at the top BUT this type of play won't have any impact on you at all. True balance can't be achieved but at least all jobs are viable to clear any content, as long as you are skilled enough.

Speedruns requires skilled players as base, the additional points come from knowing what's OP and how they align together. Failure to field players at the top of the chain means that no matter how much you stack debuffs and buffs, you are still not going to be the top players. Correlation between the speedruns and normal clears is too much of a gap that only a very small number of top raiders do nowadays. AGAIN, this won't affect too much of your game. You can't base balance at the absolute top which right now is the core of speedruns: to milk the best comp while having the best members. If you base this fragile balance on normal raiders, it becomes a very lopsided argument because you can clear just fine with any comp, so long as the group knows what to do, even if you have MNK, PLD and WHM.

People who have never raided before or anything close to that can't base their experience as true. I have people saying PLD is so good but speedruns dont use that. I have people say MNK is fine but look, no one runs the job in speedruns. Same as WHM, it is all done in moderation.

You best refrain from commenting how speedruns work if you haven't even done Savage at all. This is not a walk in your usual park nor it should be the standard where most of you need to look at. Speedrun is another world most of you won't even touch. Even a single movement can be deemed suboptimal in speedrun, but that's just how speedruns work: striving for perfection. IF you are not into perfection, please stop referencing those speedruns like you are doing those atm. It's never a fair comparison because of gap of skills alone.

Not to mention that top speedrun teams dump a lot of their times theorycrafting and plan their every gcd for every single thing, if that spells 'stress' to you, better don't comment on anything. The balance is never the same at your level and at the top.

Back in the days, you could do 7man for any coil in lvl50 easily. A1S no jump back then was achieved too. 7man A3S was done as well. And you get people reaching enrages in those fights. Same classes grossly different numbers, that is your dilemma in the current state.