We Want SAM... <make it happen>

[Claire_Pendragon]

Attacking from the front then? Time to get booty slammed by cleaves and additional frontal cone AoEs.

You assume they have to sit there and take cleaves, nor have a means to deal with them.

Remove cleaves to cater to SAM? Positioning for tanks getting nerfed to make gameplay more braindead?

No, why would they do that?

Be a DPS that is hated by healers next to BLM? Give it virtually no useful utility but high DPS for this higher risk gameplay? NIN+DRG meta prolonged?

Again, you're jumping to conclusions. Who says it has to have high DPS only? (Not that its bad for a DPS, nor was I suggesting what their support utility would be.)

Let's give our infamously horrible DF pugs a class that needs to dodge frequent untelegraphed cleaves when they already have trouble dodging telegraphed AoEs with huge orange markers.

Very VERY few attacks are like this, and of course, that doesnt mean there isnt a work around for that. I can go into detail at the bottom. Plus a players lack of skill doesnt mean we should never require them to do anything that requires effort.

Have skills that mitigate damage?

Skills to mitigate dmg, obviously, all DPS have something, and I'd be fine with having higher defense like DRG, with higher HP/mitigation effectiveness.

Lose some DPS skill slots and effectively turn it into... *gasp* a tank?

I dont see why they lose DPS skill slots. Nor do I see a problem with a DPS having near tank like playstyle/abilities, w/o the actual ability to hold hate.

But worse because a real tank doesn't need to hit the front to deal it's full damage?

What you said is like saying "A PLD is a WHM, but worse, because a real healer doesnt run out of MP with just 3 cure casts (Clemency) to heal?" Sometimes there is variation, and finding ways to use that variation brings new playstyles and less copy/paste classes. I love DEFENSIVE play styles. I find offensive playstyles boring. I find mitigation more interesting that an attack buff. So if you balance a DPS to mitigate dmg to keep itself at its best, then I'd love to play such a class. Maybe YOU wouldnt, and that is fine, not every class is meant to be the same.

Have no positionals? Release patch NIN?

Would never suggest that, If anything the idea is to not stand in front of the boss when you DONT have positionals (and using a buff to remove positionals occasionally. Though a penalty to attacking from behind would most likely remain)

inb4 SwordMage with melee range cast bar mechanics *shudder*

Who on earth would ever suggest this, w/o some sort of "stacks" to make spells intant cast, to encourage melee skills before spells?

I truly hope we aren't suggesting they become some kind of front positional DPS because... That is what Tanks are.

You're half right, but not quite.

I guess Cover would have some miniscule use here. A treat to the PLDs?

Honestly the most clever thing you've mentioned so far, as this might be a way to stack mitigation and make this class too broken, which is the only part I'd agree to rethink the design. (Nor have I already thought of a way ahead of time to deal with this.)

WHM: Stop getting cleaved!

Solution, Dodge more.

If you are the creator, there is ALWAYS a way to make unique builds work. Stop trying to suggest something couldnt ever possibly work, just because you cant think of how.

Yes because this is so much better...


I'd just love to be the healer for that, as the entire alliance's dps go down on the first cleave from the boss. That sure does sound fun!

That's not even touching problems like mechanics that target DPS with ground target attacks now getting placed on top of your tanks, requiring tanks to move bosses more often when a lot of fights require the tanks to keep the boss in a specific spot. And other incredibly numerous other problems that come with a DPS job designed to attack from the front, all for what? When you could just make that job a tank.

1,2,3 combo, 3rd combo, more dmg from the front +10 potency. you can deal w/o doing it. (Looking at Dark Arts as an example, where you have the ability to use the MP for more potency, but you dont always do it. Sometimes you need to space it out, and wait till you have the MP for it. In this case, the Mitigation for it.)
all 3, hit from behind effect: lose a stack of honor.
Honor: raise accuracy from the front and +1% DPS per stack (lets say 3 cap for now)
side ability: base dmg and gain 1 stack of honor.

In short, stay on the side of the enemy, move to the front for a single attack.
Mitigate it before you walk in front of them, such as an utsusemi like ability, move back.

Stronger mitigation, for times you plan to stay in front of them longer, to lower enmity, but raise mitgation.

Is it really that hard to imagine work arounds for these issues?
(I also intended more -enmity in the class, liek an "anti tank" Stance, to prevent them acting as OTs or something too broken. Along with weaker AoE on par with NIN or something. Which requires more support on their part, etc, so on, and so forth.)