We Want SAM... <make it happen>

[Alacran]

And there's nothing wrong with all of them having slashing weapons forever. The proposed jobs people are asking to be tanks all traditionally use swords of some form or another, red mage, samurai, blue mage, all sword wielders. Other tank-like jobs in Final fantasy games also wield swords.

Making tanks share a common damage type (slashing) offers plenty of benefits such as allowing them to comfortably fit in any party composition. Introducing a tank job with a contrasting damage type offers none of the compatibility or benefits.

They wont see how ridiculous a two handed Katana wielding Samurai will look behind the enemy. Welcome to 4.0, 24 man raids...

[JunseiKei]

That Zenos guy already looks a tad like a Garlean samurai....

[Claire_Pendragon]

They wont see how ridiculous a two handed Katana wielding Samurai will look behind the enemy. Welcome to 4.0, 24 man raids...

Thats assuming SAM attacks enemies from behind as DPS.

[Blood-Aki]

We also need to see how SAM will work in this game, so far every job they have introduced, that wasn't just a straightfoward style of role, like how ffXI and FFXIV whm do the same things, ( i am actually hoping for a Cure 4!) we don't know how sam will work. sch in this game turned out completely different from the 11 one. so this is a wait and see moment.

[FallenWings]

Thats assuming SAM attacks enemies from behind as DPS.

Attacking from the front then? Time to get booty slammed by cleaves and additional frontal cone AoEs.

Remove cleaves to cater to SAM? Positioning for tanks getting nerfed to make gameplay more braindead?

Be a DPS that is hated by healers next to BLM? Give it virtually no useful utility but high DPS for this higher risk gameplay? NIN+DRG meta prolonged?

Let's give our infamously horrible DF pugs a class that needs to dodge frequent untelegraphed cleaves when they already have trouble dodging telegraphed AoEs with huge orange markers.

Have skills that mitigate damage? Lose some DPS skill slots and effectively turn it into... *gasp* a tank? But worse because a real tank doesn't need to hit the front to deal it's full damage?

Have no positionals? Release patch NIN?
inb4 SwordMage with melee range cast bar mechanics *shudder*

I truly hope we aren't suggesting they become some kind of front positional DPS because... That is what Tanks are.

I guess Cover would have some miniscule use here. A treat to the PLDs? l0l

WHM: Stop getting cleaved!
SAM: But I need to for my DPS
WHM: I'm running out of mana!
BLM: I need a heal too
DRG: Raise please
WHM has gone offline.

[ErikMynhier]

Not that I wouldn't mind a judgemaster themed tank, it's a bit hard to swallow the notion of adventurer's running around masquerading as the people who are subjugating the known world.

Well the same could be said of Machinist. By RP logic, any Ala Mhigan should have PTSD at the sight of any firearm attached to a weapon or not, as gun wielders drove them out. People still manage to work around it as there are a large number of Garlean-based guns strapped on to the backs of highlanders and no one bats an eye. Fortunately SE tends to make things reasonable lore-wise for RPers like you and me. And when they can't they do it anyway.

Honestly I could see this as a thing. New free government of Ala Mhigo, they want to reestablish order with the people that have lived maybe happily under Imperial rule for 20+ years, jaded refugee returners, newcomers and adventurers. They get Cid to cobble some nonsense out of the 20+ years of Garlean junk laying about and make sort of a police force open as members and as volunteers (see: Sultansworn/Free Paladin). You could run the whole questline based off of Judge Dread... would be pretty epic I think.

[Shippuu]

Thats assuming SAM attacks enemies from behind as DPS.

Yes because this is so much better...


I'd just love to be the healer for that, as the entire alliance's dps go down on the first cleave from the boss. That sure does sound fun!

That's not even touching problems like mechanics that target DPS with ground target attacks now getting placed on top of your tanks, requiring tanks to move bosses more often when a lot of fights require the tanks to keep the boss in a specific spot. And other incredibly numerous other problems that come with a DPS job designed to attack from the front, all for what? When you could just make that job a tank.

Well the same could be said of Machinist. By RP logic, any Ala Mhigan should have PTSD at the sight of any firearm attached to a weapon or not, as gun wielders drove them out. People still manage to work around it as there are a large number of Garlean-based guns strapped on to the backs of highlanders and no one bats an eye. Fortunately SE tends to make things reasonable lore-wise for RPers like you and me. And when they can't they do it anyway.

Why would Ala Mhigans have PTSD from firearms? They employed them themselves, with cannons and likely other forms of firearms. They were the strongest military force on Eorzea before the Empire invaded, likely one of the most advanced as well, having repelled numerous invasions from the north. Blackpowder weapons have been around for a long time.

Machinists are quite different as well, they are not decisively Garlean in nature, rifles have been around Eorzea for a long time, and the key component of Machinists is the aetherotransformer, which was invented by Stephanivien and certainly isn't Garlean tech as it converts an individual's aether into lightning aspected aether to power the weapon and other devices. Garlean tech is not fueled by individual's aether but ceruleum since pureblood Garleans have very little aptitude for manipulating aether (their own nor ambient). Even then, Machinists don't exist without a certain level of scrutiny from others.

Honestly I could see this as a thing. New free government of Ala Mhigo, they want to reestablish order with the people that have lived maybe happily under Imperial rule for 20+ years, jaded refugee returners, newcomers and adventurers. They get Cid to cobble some nonsense out of the 20+ years of Garlean junk laying about and make sort of a police force open as members and as volunteers (see: Sultansworn/Free Paladin). You could run the whole questline based off of Judge Dread... would be pretty epic I think.

But now we're talking about post 4.0 stuff which then makes the concept a bit more possible as we push the Empire back, their power diminishing etc. But that's another 2-3 years out now if we're talking 5.0 stuff. It doesn't make quite so much sense to be implemented in 4.0, where we will be actively fighting to just retake Ala Mhigo likely during the entire 4.0-4.1 storyline. Cid being the person to throw it together seems off though, I doubt he'd have any reason to do such a thing and as with every Job trainer the actual trainer is not an important figure to the game's overall story so it's highly unlikely Cid nor Nero would have anything at all to do with it.

[ErikMynhier]

Cool stuff.

I can see your point. But a Warhammer job would be epic though.

[Gravton]

All I said was Samurai was played out, and criticized how classic jobs get priority in development. The spell dancer was just an example

Of course classic jobs are going to get priority. They need to sell the expansion. This expansion isn't just for current players or even players that follow every FF game. Most people know what a samurai is, it sounds cool and I'd check it out if I wasn't already playing. It's designed to attract old and new customers. Releasing something like a spell dancer doesn't inspire an "OMG! I must play it!" Just like when WoW released pandas did not convince me to go back.

[Shippuu]

I can see your point. But a Warhammer job would be epic though.

Definitely. I have no doubt we will see one eventually unless they really do want to rehash every single type of sword they possibly can. With additions like SAM and RDM (if SAM is being added in 4.0 and not saved until later), that leaves few major recurring Final Fantasy jobs left and so we will undoubtedly see even more either unique new jobs, or rarer Final Fantasy jobs that might get whole new identities. A Judgemaster themed tank is definitely one of the more likely options as it's not particularly tied to a weapon type in past games and as such offers more freedom when compared to some classic FF staples. Only time will tell at this point.